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  1. #1
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    Resisted sprints (must read)

    I want to settle this once and for all.

    Parachutes arent good for speed training, infact they are very bad.

    Hills are great regardless of incline degree.

    Sleds are good ONLY at 10% of body weight resistance, no more at all.

    Weighted vests only good at 10% of body weight.

    Ankle weights or wrist weights are useless and non sense, you dont pull in a sprint, you push.

    Other resisted sprints vary, but heavy resistance on with belt and a band also arent necessary, all depends on ground contact time.


    My choice of resistance work would be uphill sprints and sleds at 10% of body weight, so if you're 150 pounds, only pull 15 pounds max.

    Anything else is either used to make money and most of the time bad for sprint biomechanics.

    So next time you're doing heavy sled pulls, know what you are doing and that is good for strength, bad for speed.
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  2. #2
    Registered User Reps n Sets's Avatar
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    how about harnesses? are they practical or so they sit in the same class as parachutes?
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    i would almos say this goes in line with the "sport specific" thread. because of the form and biomechanics involved, sprint work borders on a skill. sprinting with heavy resistance teaches the body poor form.

    just my opinion

    dave
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    The main reason is prolonged GCT (ground contact time).

    In plyometrics, pausing inbetween jumps makes the plyometrics useless.

    Now doing this with heavy weight = bad biomechanics as a result of too much ground contact time, result of heavy sleds.
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    Originally Posted by Reps n Sets View Post
    how about harnesses? are they practical or so they sit in the same class as parachutes?
    depends if one has even resistance.
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  6. #6
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    Unhappy

    Originally Posted by farzamk View Post
    depends if one has even resistance.
    I'm stuck between and rock and a hard place...a lot of what you preach goes against what my coach does. My coach is really old school. He ran on wooden floors, didn't use spikes, and didn't use the blocks and was supposedly a great athlete back in his hay day. He claim to produce some pretty decent runners (21 second times in the 200m with D3 athletes) with limit resources (no training facility- just a basketball court, a hallway, and some stairs). I have no reason to believe he would about something like that. I know one his runners that he has trained in the past and he runs a 21 200m.

    But he uses the harnesses with heavy resistance, i.e he had me pulling about 60 lbs heavier across the court and he had my do cross country in order to get "in shape" for track-- even though I'm a sprinter. He said country cross would get my shape so I would only have to focus on speed work during the track season.

    I try challenge him about this and he said I was talking stupid and he used my inexperiences as a scapegoat and proved his by saying how many record breaking athletes he produced so i really couldn't win the argument. What was I supposed to say? some guy name farzamk on the internet told me such and such... I would have sounded more idiotic. I left his office with my tail stuck between my ass.

    I really don't know what to believe. I have two experienced coach preaching polar opposites methods.
    Last edited by Reps n Sets; 01-20-2008 at 10:47 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by Reps n Sets View Post
    I'm stuck between and rock and a hard place...a lot of what you preach goes against what my coach does. My coach is really old school. He ran on wooden floors, didn't use spikes, and didn't use the blocks and was supposedly a great athlete back in his hay day. He claim to produce some pretty decent runners (21 second times in the 200m with D3 athletes) with limit resources (no training facility- just a basketball court, a hallway, and some stairs). I have no reason to believe he would about something like that. I know one his runners that he has trained in the past and he runs a 21 200m.

    But he uses the harnesses with heavy resistance, i.e he had me pulling about 60 lbs heavier across the court and he had my do cross country in order to get "in shape" for track-- even though I'm a sprinter. He said country cross would get my shape so I would only have to focus on speed work during the track season.

    I try challenge him about this and he said I was talking stupid and he used my inexperiences as a scapegoat and proved his by saying how many record breaking athletes he produced so i really couldn't win the argument. What was I supposed to say? some guy name farzamk on the internet told me such and such... I would have sounded more idiotic. I left his office with my tail stuck between my ass.

    I really don't know what to believe. I have two experienced coach preaching polar opposites methods.
    http://charliefrancis.com/community

    Show him that, charlie francis coached ben johsnon and coached Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery, he also is linked to the fastest men in history (Greene, Powell as well). He is also said to be by many as the best speed coach in the world. I dont think any coach can dispute his training methods (Barry Ross attempted and failed).

    Plus that, could you get his email for me to contact him?
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by farzamk View Post
    http://charliefrancis.com/community

    Show him that, charlie francis coached ben johsnon and coached Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery, he also is linked to the fastest men in history (Greene, Powell as well). He is also said to be by many as the best speed coach in the world. I dont think any coach can dispute his training methods (Barry Ross attempted and failed).

    Plus that, could you get his email for me to contact him?
    Didn't you say yourself you shouldn't follow the training methods elite athletes do?


    Anyway.. I'll rep you his email address.
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by Reps n Sets View Post
    Didn't you say yourself you shouldn't follow the training methods elite athletes do?


    Anyway.. I'll rep you his email address.
    Charlie doesnt give elite advice. Also by training methods I meant more so volume of work. The other stuff is basically combo of the basic things I say in this forum, nothing so special.
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    Also do you mind if I say one of your athletes told me this, in the email?
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    Ankle weights or wrist weights are useless and non sense, you dont pull in a sprint, you push.
    This surprises me-alot! I have always believed the acceleration to be primarily a pushing motion but the top end speed to be a pulling motion, i.e., the hips are pulling back on the ground as they extend. This begs the question: Do you consider squats to be a pulling or pushing motion. I say pulling. Although the knees are bent, and there is a pushing motion involved with the quads in extending the knees, the main force comes from extending the hips, which is powered by the posterior chain. What do you think?
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  12. #12
    Registered User Reps n Sets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by farzamk View Post
    Also do you mind if I say one of your athletes told me this, in the email?
    no.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Spartan40 View Post
    This surprises me-alot! I have always believed the acceleration to be primarily a pushing motion but the top end speed to be a pulling motion, i.e., the hips are pulling back on the ground as they extend. This begs the question: Do you consider squats to be a pulling or pushing motion. I say pulling. Although the knees are bent, and there is a pushing motion involved with the quads in extending the knees, the main force comes from extending the hips, which is powered by the posterior chain. What do you think?
    sprinting is a pushing motion. Main part of squats is hip extension and it is a pushing motion as you explained with the quads and the knees.
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    Originally Posted by farzamk View Post
    sprinting is a pushing motion. Main part of squats is hip extension and it is a pushing motion as you explained with the quads and the knees.
    So you're saying the quads are the dominant muscle in sprints/squats? Why do I always feel the tension and soreness from sprints (both resisted and free) in the posterior chain, and hardly ever in the quads? Do you suspect my form is incorrect?
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    Originally Posted by Spartan40 View Post
    So you're saying the quads are the dominant muscle in sprints/squats? Why do I always feel the tension and soreness from sprints (both resisted and free) in the posterior chain, and hardly ever in the quads? Do you suspect my form is incorrect?
    hamstrings are the dominant muscle in sprinting, squats more so are quads. Quads are more used in accel. while glutes/hams are more so for max speed.
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    reps and sets--

    sometimes you can't go by what champions he's coached. you have to remeber that everyone is built different. some of those championship runners could have been genetic wonders, and succeded IN SPITE OF, and not BECAUSE OF the training.

    i'm new to these boards, so my opinion doesn't hold as much weight. but i've been trainind by the bad and the good. and it wasn't till i found some coaches who really understood the mechanics of the human body and were able to translate all the scientific stuff into lamens terms so that i could understand as well, before i started to succed. and succed consistantly. you are in a tough spot, cause you pretty much have to do what the coach says, hopefully he will entertain the idea of talking to farzamk.

    good luck
    dave
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    Originally Posted by farzamk View Post
    I want to settle this once and for all.

    Parachutes arent good for speed training, infact they are very bad.

    Hills are great regardless of incline degree.

    Sleds are good ONLY at 10% of body weight resistance, no more at all.

    Weighted vests only good at 10% of body weight.

    Ankle weights or wrist weights are useless and non sense, you dont pull in a sprint, you push.

    Other resisted sprints vary, but heavy resistance on with belt and a band also arent necessary, all depends on ground contact time.


    My choice of resistance work would be uphill sprints and sleds at 10% of body weight, so if you're 150 pounds, only pull 15 pounds max.

    Anything else is either used to make money and most of the time bad for sprint biomechanics.

    So next time you're doing heavy sled pulls, know what you are doing and that is good for strength, bad for speed.
    what if the weight of the vest gets too light for you?
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    Originally Posted by xKKx7 View Post
    what if the weight of the vest gets too light for you?
    if your body weight goes up, so does the weight, if not it stays the same. Why should the vest be getting too light anyways? Majority of speed work should be done unresisted if you want to get fast.
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    damn .. where would this section be without you haha
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    heavy sled pull's in my opinion works wonders in your acceleration phase. That's why all heavy sled pulls are kept at a low distance, also doing upright walks with a heavy sled get your posterior chain really strong thus making you faster.

    IMO
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    Originally Posted by finfan View Post
    heavy sled pull's in my opinion works wonders in your acceleration phase. That's why all heavy sled pulls are kept at a low distance, also doing upright walks with a heavy sled get your posterior chain really strong thus making you faster.

    IMO
    Walking with sleds is way different, something I use, Charlie Francis uses and so do some other world class coaches. Sprints with it ARE NOT good and bad for biomechanics, you get stronger but hinders overall sprint performance.
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    Originally Posted by farzamk View Post
    Walking with sleds is way different, something I use, Charlie Francis uses and so do some other world class coaches. Sprints with it ARE NOT good and bad for biomechanics, you get stronger but hinders overall sprint performance.
    ya that's what I meant, its kind of like a marching motion.
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    Originally Posted by finfan View Post
    ya that's what I meant, its kind of like a marching motion.
    Yes but remember sprinting is a pushing motion not a pulling. For development of strength in GPP it's fine, but more so not something needed and unneccesary to carry onto SPP, keep it in the GPP.
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    Training for Rugby... Spartan40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by finfan View Post
    heavy sled pull's in my opinion works wonders in your acceleration phase. That's why all heavy sled pulls are kept at a low distance, also doing upright walks with a heavy sled get your posterior chain really strong thus making you faster.

    IMO
    I've noticed the same. I seem to get benefits in terms of strength and explosiveness but as many have said, the extended ground contact time is probably disruptive of form. Immediately after the sled sprints I always seem to run free sprints faster, but I have to be VERY careful with form and technique.
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    Registered User booma2222's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by crppleman51 View Post
    damn .. where would this section be without you haha
    Yeah i agree.

    Farzamk you are the god father of this section. (serious)
    Fear is the only thing that seperates the average man from a Champion
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    Originally Posted by Spartan40 View Post
    I've noticed the same. I seem to get benefits in terms of strength and explosiveness but as many have said, the extended ground contact time is probably disruptive of form. Immediately after the sled sprints I always seem to run free sprints faster, but I have to be VERY careful with form and technique.
    If you want to simply get strong then heavy sled pulls are great. Powerlifters do heavy sled pulls, they dont want to be doing sprints though...
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    Originally Posted by booma2222 View Post
    Yeah i agree.

    Farzamk you are the god father of this section. (serious)
    haha lol.

    thanks for the compliments everyone.
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    Mr. Track coach are you saying that the worlds top speed trainers are wrong, about their weight ratio. From what i hear you are supposed to do 0 percent of your body weight at least to have signicant gains in speed.Second before people should even be doing sleds the trainer should make sure they have correct strentgh ratios, so sleds do not deystroy running form.third, you forgot to add when trining with sleds it is most effective to neglect arm movment.Arm movment adds momentum to running which can reduce effective ness of the exercise up to 4x.Now, im no certified trainer but after watching plenty of film from guys who can run 4.3 forties, i think their actions speak for my words.I mean LT (San diego RB)trains with about 75% of his bodyweight and can run a 4.3.I was told what is most effective was to do sprints with about 65% of bw, then sprint for 20-30yrds twice, eliminating arm movement. then do 2 40 yard sprints with no weights, to eventually trick you muscles into using more fibers for running. it works to. in month my 40 tim went down .2 secs.No, direspect but we apparently heard are info from two different grapvines.
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    I just thought i add that explosion is only as great as somones strength.You cant place 500 hp in a 2 litre engine. it just can not hapen.
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    But doesn't cahrlie say that on hill sprints a hill should only be a certain amount because acceleration mechanics will be hindered because you will be moving your leg more up then up and out. Thus making you drive up(need forward body lean when accelerating) instead of forward.
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