Why do you people use fruit PWO? It is time for a change

**MattyH7688** · 10-09-2007, 07:02 PM

Let me first give u the definition of fructose and what exactly it does

Originally Posted by http://bodybuilding.com/fun/issa14.htm

Referring to the three ways the body uses glucose, assuming that blood glucose levels are adequate, the glucose will then be stored as glycogen. Muscle does not have the necessary enzymes to synthesize fructose into glycogen; therefore the liver converts this fructose into liver glycogen. It would only take three, 8-ounce glasses of orange juice to fully replenish liver glycogen stores. Since the liver is responsible for supplying energy to the entire body, once its stores are full, a rate limiting enzyme in glucose metabolism, which is responsible for signaling the body to store glucose as glycogen or convert it to fat (phosphofructokinase), signals the body that all stores are full. If the glycogen stores are signaled as full, then the third way our body uses excess glucose is to convert it to fatty acids and store as adipose tissue. In essence, fruit sugar is easily converted to fat.

Many may be asking why then is fruit low on the glycemic index? If it does not cause a sudden release of insulin, then how could it ever be a poor food choice? Once the fructose (fruit sugar) enters the liver and liver glycogen is[ already full, then it cannot be used by the muscles for glycogen or energy production.

It is converted to fat and released back into the bloodstream to be stored as adipose tissue. The low glycemic response is based on the fact that fructose leaves the liver as fat, and fat does not raise insulin levels.

Basically.. fructose does absolute crap when it comes to muscle building and restoring muscle glycogen.. once the liver glycogen is filled ur body cant use it and it is stored as fat

Now a study that compares fructose compared to glucose in muscle glycogen recovery post workout

Muscle glycogen recovery after exercise during glucose and fructose intake monitored by 13C-NMR

Adrianus J. Van Den Bergh, Sibrand Houtman, Arend Heerschap, Nancy J. Rehrer, Hendrikus J. Van Den Boogert, Berend Oeseburg, and Maria T. E. Hopman

Departments of Radiology and Physiology, University of Nijmegen, 6500 HB Nijmegen, The Netherlands; and School of Physical Education, Otago University, Dunedin, New Zealand

Received 8 May 1995; accepted in final form 31 May 1996.

Van Den Bergh, Adrianus J., Sibrand Houtman, Arend Heerschap, Nancy J. Rehrer, Hendrikus J. Van Den Boogert, Berend Oeseburg, and Maria T. E. Hopman. Muscle glycogen recovery after exercise during glucose and fructose intake monitored by 13C-NMR. J. Appl. Physiol. 81(4): 1495-1500, 1996.---The purpose of this study was to examine muscle glycogen recovery with glucose feeding (GF) compared with fructose feeding (FF) during the first 8 h after partial glycogen depletion by using 13C-nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) on a clinical 1.5-T NMR system. After measurement of the glycogen concentration of the vastus lateralis (VL) muscle in seven male subjects, glycogen stores of the VL were depleted by bicycle exercise. During 8 h after completion of exercise, subjects were orally given either GF or FF while the glycogen content of the VL was monitored by 13C-NMR spectroscopy every second hour. The muscular glycogen concentration was expressed as a percentage of the glycogen concentration measured before exercise. The glycogen recovery rate during GF (4.2 ? 0.2%/h) was significantly higher (P < 0.05) compared with values during FF (2.2 ? 0.3%/h). This study shows that 1) muscle glycogen levels are perceptible by 13C-NMR spectroscopy at 1.5 T and 2) the glycogen restoration rate is higher after GF compared with after FF.

glycogen depletion; vastus lateralis muscle; bicycle exercise; 1.5 tesla; carbon-13 nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy

Glucose murdered fructose.. my question to you all is, why do you continue to use fruit post workout when something like dextrose is optimal and cheaper than fruit? It is also readily available

**Sixpack** · 10-09-2007, 07:03 PM

I use oats

**Mr.Hombre** · 10-09-2007, 07:06 PM

replenishing muscle glycogen is the primary concern. however, the amount of liver glycogen that's tapped into is proportional to the intensity of workouts. so, it's a good idea to have some (about 1/4 or so) of your post workout carbs target liver glycogen

**The Solution** · 10-09-2007, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by MattyH7688

Let me first give u the definition of fructose and what exactly it does

Basically.. fructose does absolute crap when it comes to muscle building and restoring muscle glycogen.. once the liver glycogen is filled ur body cant use it and it is stored as fat

Now a study that compares fructose compared to glucose in muscle glycogen recovery post workout

Muscle glycogen recovery after exercise during glucose and fructose intake monitored by 13C-NMR

Adrianus J. Van Den Bergh, Sibrand Houtman, Arend Heerschap, Nancy J. Rehrer, Hendrikus J. Van Den Boogert, Berend Oeseburg, and Maria T. E. Hopman

Departments of Radiology and Physiology, University of Nijmegen, 6500 HB Nijmegen, The Netherlands; and School of Physical Education, Otago University, Dunedin, New Zealand

Received 8 May 1995; accepted in final form 31 May 1996.

Van Den Bergh, Adrianus J., Sibrand Houtman, Arend Heerschap, Nancy J. Rehrer, Hendrikus J. Van Den Boogert, Berend Oeseburg, and Maria T. E. Hopman. Muscle glycogen recovery after exercise during glucose and fructose intake monitored by 13C-NMR. J. Appl. Physiol. 81(4): 1495-1500, 1996.---The purpose of this study was to examine muscle glycogen recovery with glucose feeding (GF) compared with fructose feeding (FF) during the first 8 h after partial glycogen depletion by using 13C-nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) on a clinical 1.5-T NMR system. After measurement of the glycogen concentration of the vastus lateralis (VL) muscle in seven male subjects, glycogen stores of the VL were depleted by bicycle exercise. During 8 h after completion of exercise, subjects were orally given either GF or FF while the glycogen content of the VL was monitored by 13C-NMR spectroscopy every second hour. The muscular glycogen concentration was expressed as a percentage of the glycogen concentration measured before exercise. The glycogen recovery rate during GF (4.2 ? 0.2%/h) was significantly higher (P < 0.05) compared with values during FF (2.2 ? 0.3%/h). This study shows that 1) muscle glycogen levels are perceptible by 13C-NMR spectroscopy at 1.5 T and 2) the glycogen restoration rate is higher after GF compared with after FF.

glycogen depletion; vastus lateralis muscle; bicycle exercise; 1.5 tesla; carbon-13 nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy

Glucose murdered fructose.. my question to you all is, why do you continue to use fruit post workout when something like dextrose is optimal and cheaper than fruit? It is also readily available

then what would u suggest for an easy carb source in a PWO shake?

i currently use 30g of carbs from a banana and 25g of carbs from dex

**MattyH7688** · 10-09-2007, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by LayzieBone085

then what would u suggest for an easy carb source in a PWO shake?

i currently use 30g of carbs from a banana and 25g of carbs from dex

it doesnt get much easier than dextrose.. banana isnt to bad.. its about half glucose half fructose with a little bit of sucrose isnt there

**CF10** · 10-09-2007, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by MattyH7688

my question to you all is, why do you continue to use fruit post workout when something like dextrose is optimal and cheaper than fruit?

Probably because they came into the nutrition section and listened to advice from one of the threads that basically goes against everything we have ever learned about how to eat for bodybuilding purposes. Then it became a cult-like following of rebels and renegades.

**Sixpack** · 10-09-2007, 07:16 PM

U don't need fast digesting carbs Postworkout, I have a regular meal afterwards and it has worked great. You will spike insulin no matter what. MY gains have always been leaner taking in complex carbs instead of simple carbs. Read up on the sticky up top on postworkout nutrition by Alan Aragon.

**BlueFenix13S** · 10-09-2007, 07:19 PM

If I have fruit PWO, it's bananas, which as far as I know have a higher % of glucose and sucrose than other fruits.

**Sibrek** · 10-09-2007, 07:19 PM

Alan aragon> matty58585 and cf11

That's why.

**CF10** · 10-09-2007, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Sibrek

cf11

Who?

**The Solution** · 10-09-2007, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sixpack

U don't need fast digesting carbs Postworkout, I have a regular meal afterwards and it has worked great. You will spike insulin no matter what. MY gains have always been leaner taking in complex carbs instead of simple carbs. Read up on the sticky up top on postworkout nutrition by Alan Aragon.

well i dont have time to eat WHOLE foods PWO.. so what would u suggest blending with my whey isolate?

**SDC77** · 10-09-2007, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Sibrek

Alan aragon> matty58585 and cf11

That's why.

lol x 2

**Aindreas** · 10-09-2007, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by LayzieBone085

well i dont have time to eat WHOLE foods PWO.. so what would u suggest blending with my whey isolate?

You can't eat a bagel?

**MattyH7688** · 10-09-2007, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sibrek

Alan aragon> matty58585 and cf11

That's why.

what r u talking about again troll.. show me how i am arguing with alan aragon at all???

sibrek gtfo of bb.com.. u have never once provided anything useful to this site

**MattyH7688** · 10-09-2007, 07:25 PM

This thread is not about complex vs simple carbs pwo, this thread is about fructose being used as pwo

**Sibrek** · 10-09-2007, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by MattyH7688

what r u talking about again troll.. show me how i am arguing with alan aragon at all???

sibrek gtfo of bb.com.. u have never once provided anything useful to this site

Lol. I'm a troll? Go binge and complain about it in contest prep.

**CF10** · 10-09-2007, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by MattyH7688

what r u talking about again troll.. show me how i am arguing with alan aragon at all???

sibrek gtfo of bb.com.. u have never once provided anything useful to this site

Originally Posted by Scott~

lol x 2

**MattyH7688** · 10-09-2007, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Sibrek

Lol. I'm a troll? Go binge and complain about it in contest prep.

lol do i really need to post up a picture on how u really look.............

**CF10** · 10-09-2007, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by MattyH7688

lol do i really need to post up a picture on how u really look.............

Yes.

**BlueFenix13S** · 10-09-2007, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by MattyH7688

This thread is not about complex vs simple carbs pwo, this thread is about fructose being used as pwo

Haha Thanks for clarifying

. Yea I think SOME fructose is beneficial, but it is not the best for the majority of PWO carbs. For those than can take dex/malto/WMS without fat gains (i.e. mesos and ectos), that's the best bet, for endos, complex starchy carbs and maybe a LITTLE bit of high GI carbs is best. The amount of carbohydrate taken in is more important for protein synthesis than the type. If we are talking glycogen re-synthesis, then I agree with you in that dex/malto/wms is the winner.

**MattyH7688** · 10-09-2007, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by CF10

Yes.

sibrek the nutrition expert

**Mr.Hombre** · 10-09-2007, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by MattyH7688

lol do i really need to post up a picture on how u really look.............

So, you have a picture of another man saved on your computer?

**CF10** · 10-09-2007, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by MattyH7688

sibrek the nutrition expert

O'rly

**Sibrek** · 10-09-2007, 07:33 PM

That was pre-cut, and I don't think i look bad for my first bulk cycle. Do you?

**MattyH7688** · 10-09-2007, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Fidelitas626

Haha Thanks for clarifying

. Yea I think SOME fructose is beneficial, but it is not the best for the majority of PWO carbs. For those than can take dex/malto/WMS without fat gains (i.e. mesos and ectos), that's the best bet, for endos, complex starchy carbs and maybe a LITTLE bit of high GI carbs is best. The amount of carbohydrate taken in is more important for protein synthesis than the type. If we are talking glycogen re-synthesis, then I agree with you in that dex/malto/wms is the winner.

i agree with u 100%

fructose is not useless and is important.. i often have an apple and honey for breakfast to replenish liver glycogen i just find it useless for postworkout and find there are much better options as fructose cannot replenish muscle glycogen which is key pwo

i have used oats dextrose and WMS.. personally there isnt much a different imo.. though wms and dextrose may be the "optimal" choice it wont make a huge difference, if any, in the overall picture

**BlueFenix13S** · 10-09-2007, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by MattyH7688

i have used oats dextrose and WMS.. personally there isnt much a different imo.. though wms and dextrose may be the "optimal" choice it wont make a huge difference, if any, in the overall picture

You didn't get sh**ty genetics like me then lol (endo torso from my dad, ecto limbs from my mom). I went with malto for a bit, but too much fat gain, so I have milk, honey, and oats or a bagel now.

**MattyH7688** · 10-09-2007, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Fidelitas626

You didn't get sh**ty genetics like me then lol (endo torso from my dad, ecto limbs from my mom). I went with malto for a bit, but too much fat gain, so I have milk, honey, and oats or a bagel now.

dextrose bloats me quite a bit.. but i like it a lot

currently my pwo shake is
12 oz milk
one scoop whey
75 grams wms
10 grams leucine

im gonna switch back to dextrose though after the wms is out

**The Solution** · 10-09-2007, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Aindreas

You can't eat a bagel?

well.. there are no bagels down here in the cafe and i dont really feel like going out to buy any.. to tell u the truth.. i rather just blend something in my magic bullet while i hop in the shower and then pick up my cup and go to class.. it works 100x easier..

but if i do decide to pick up a bagel.. wouldnt one be about 50g of carbs or so? and does it matter what flavor is it (cinnamon raisin, white, whole wheat)

**rob?** · 10-09-2007, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by LayzieBone085

then what would u suggest for an easy carb source in a PWO shake?

i currently use 30g of carbs from a banana and 25g of carbs from dex

skip the shake, eat real food

**Aindreas** · 10-09-2007, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by LayzieBone085

well.. there are no bagels down here in the cafe and i dont really feel like going out to buy any.. to tell u the truth.. i rather just blend something in my magic bullet while i hop in the shower and then pick up my cup and go to class.. it works 100x easier..

but if i do decide to pick up a bagel.. wouldnt one be about 50g of carbs or so? and does it matter what flavor is it (cinnamon raisin, white, whole wheat)

I'm surprised the cafeteria doesn't have bagels. You have Ezekiel bread don't you? Just bring some to the gym.

As long as it's got enough carbs, get whatever tastes best. I'm a fan of cinnamon raisin.

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