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  1. #1
    Registered User mmmh98's Avatar
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    Bodybuilding and maintaining athleticism

    Hey everybody.


    Is it possible to bulk and lift heavy speights, but still be good at sports and maintain athleticism? By adding pylos maybe?

    I recently played football, but felt a lot heavier, slower and more stiff than i used to be. I used to be very agile, Quick and smooth. I have bulked a lot so probably thats it?

    I do a Push pull leg workout with a 6 Day split. Push pull leg rest and repeat.

    My main priority is hypertrophy, but i still want to be athletic. Like i want to sprint fast, get agile, flexible, jumo High etc.

    Is that possible by maybe adding 2 plyometric exercises before my heavy lifitng? Or what do you Think i should do
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    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    Muscle won't slow you down..until you're pro bb sized.

    Getting Fat and not moving how you used to will..

    I suggest watching Alec enkiri on yt 😉👍
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    Continue playing your sport(s) of choice while you work out and you won't lose athleticism, unless you're simply no longer that athletic due to age, weight or skill issues.

    As noted above, unless you look like a pro it's unlikely to make you unathletic. Pro athletes (esp if we're talking American football) can be quite huge, fast and agile.
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    Lean naturals usually come in at around 165 to 175 lbs after years of lifting (Assuming normal height). That's not going to slow you down if you keep cardio in a few days per week. Nothing like the pros at 320 ripped lol.
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    Registered User mmmh98's Avatar
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    Yeah i havent played a while so surely it has something to do with it. But what do you Think about the plyometrics thing? Like maybe 1-2 excercises of jumping before leg Day and 1-2 excercises of medicine Ball tossing before chest day. I read somewhere it would maintain you functionality, and even boost you athleticism like the vertical and so on.
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    Originally Posted by mmmh98 View Post
    Yeah i havent played a while so surely it has something to do with it. But what do you Think about the plyometrics thing? Like maybe 1-2 excercises of jumping before leg Day and 1-2 excercises of medicine Ball tossing before chest day. I read somewhere it would maintain you functionality, and even boost you athleticism like the vertical and so on.
    That's fine if you enjoy it and can work it logically into your training. For athletes, it's meant as a supplement and not a replacement for the sport itself or natural athletic abilities.
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    Originally Posted by mmmh98 View Post
    Yeah i havent played a while so surely it has something to do with it. But what do you Think about the plyometrics thing? Like maybe 1-2 excercises of jumping before leg Day and 1-2 excercises of medicine Ball tossing before chest day. I read somewhere it would maintain you functionality, and even boost you athleticism like the vertical and so on.

    Ride your bike, jog, jump rope, rollerblade, play tennis, play basketball and racquetball…just be active a few days a week away from the weight room….you’ll be fine.
    "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

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    You could try PAP training - Post-Activation Potentiation

    There is a channel called Garage Strength on YT who has some interesting stuff about athletes.

    Also, Nick Curson and Marinovich training system.


    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    Muscle won't slow you down..until you're pro bb sized.
    From what I've seen in sports like MMA or boxing, they do slow you down when you jump divisions.
    Less endurance, less speed.
    But it matters only for professional athletes.
    For us, doesn't really matter, especially if plyos are incorporated.
    "Reminds me of the good ol' days back in 03-04 when ripptoes/5 by 5/hit/doggcrap reigned supreme and you did not need direct arm work for big biceps. Rows and chins were it. "Ever see a guy rowing 300+lbs with chicken arms?". Ah yes those were the days. God bless amusclehead and his twisted one dimensional views along with the rest of the former flock."
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    Registered User mmmh98's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    You could try PAP training - Post-Activation Potentiation

    There is a channel called Garage Strength on YT who has some interesting stuff about athletes.

    Also, Nick Curson and Marinovich training system.




    From what I've seen in sports like MMA or boxing, they do slow you down when you jump divisions.
    Less endurance, less speed.
    But it matters only for professional athletes.
    For us, doesn't really matter, especially if plyos are incorporated.
    Yeah thats why i want to incorporate plyometrics, but the question is how. How many excercises, to which extent etc.

    Like i want to bodybuild, but sinultaneously i want to stay athletic and even improve it
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    Originally Posted by mmmh98 View Post
    Yeah thats why i want to incorporate plyometrics, but the question is how. How many excercises, to which extent etc.

    Like i want to bodybuild, but sinultaneously i want to stay athletic and even improve it
    I think you're likely misremembering what a stellar athlete you were before huge muscles started to slow you down.
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  11. #11
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Hypertrophy training has actually made me a faster, more explosive sprinter at the age of 37 than I was at 34 before I started lifting.
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    Hypertrophy training has actually made me a faster, more explosive sprinter at the age of 37 than I was at 34 before I started lifting.
    This is what happens 👌

    Adding muscle mass won't slow you down. Unless hyp training takes away time from your athletic training.

    Getting Fat and not training your agility and speed ect slows you down...
    So much bro fallacy that muscle = slow
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    You could try PAP training - Post-Activation Potentiation

    There is a channel called Garage Strength on YT who has some interesting stuff about athletes.

    Also, Nick Curson and Marinovich training system.




    From what I've seen in sports like MMA or boxing, they do slow you down when you jump divisions.
    Less endurance, less speed.
    But it matters only for professional athletes.
    For us, doesn't really matter, especially if plyos are incorporated.
    Muscle mass never slowed Mike Tyson down.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kknVfOJZ1w0
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    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coachcalande View Post
    Muscle mass never slowed Mike Tyson down.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kknVfOJZ1w0
    He just got faster and more explosive..

    Until age and mindset took his edge
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    He just got faster and more explosive..

    Until age and mindset took his edge
    He’s looking great in his 50s and just had a fight a couple of months ago.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJD1XazR-GA
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    Originally Posted by coachcalande View Post
    Muscle mass never slowed Mike Tyson down.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kknVfOJZ1w0
    It doesn't change what I said
    Mike Tyson was a HW from the start, he didn't jump divisions.
    Also, good frame for having big muscles without losing other abilities, great genetics + steroids.
    Not everybody has that type of frame. Adesanya, Wilder, Lomachenko, Max Holloway.


    Again, this has nothing to do with OP, it's off topic.
    Doesn't matter if you are not a professional athlete who needs that 1-3-5% extra speed, explosivness or endurance.
    But, to a certain degree, adding muscle mass in time >>> slower and less endurance.
    Tyson was fast and explosive, but for a HW.
    There are many smaller boxers much faster than him.
    Usually, small fighters (featherweights, lightweights) have far more cardio and they are much faster.


    Originally Posted by mmmh98 View Post
    Yeah thats why i want to incorporate plyometrics, but the question is how. How many excercises, to which extent etc.

    Like i want to bodybuild, but sinultaneously i want to stay athletic and even improve it
    Either you do plyos at the end or on your rest days.
    Not before weight training, it will interfere with your progress.
    The number of exercises depends on you and your recovery.
    Start with a few and see how it gooes.
    "Reminds me of the good ol' days back in 03-04 when ripptoes/5 by 5/hit/doggcrap reigned supreme and you did not need direct arm work for big biceps. Rows and chins were it. "Ever see a guy rowing 300+lbs with chicken arms?". Ah yes those were the days. God bless amusclehead and his twisted one dimensional views along with the rest of the former flock."
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    Explosive work always comes first...
    If you do it fatigued you dont get the adaptations you want.

    (unless you are doing max effort type work, then that can replace the 'power' work)

    Then you do your strength work..
    Then any hyp/gpp work (or gpp Seperate depending on schedule)

    What do they even teach people now?..
    What was energy systems?
    Next thing will be to do plyos or jumps for high reps..
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    Explosive work always comes first...
    If you do it fatigued you dont get the adaptations you want.

    (unless you are doing max effort type work, then that can replace the 'power' work)

    Then you do your strength work..
    Then any hyp/gpp work (or gpp Seperate depending on schedule)

    What do they even teach people now?..
    What was energy systems?
    Next thing will be to do plyos or jumps for high reps..
    True with the adaptations.
    But I prefer to do it after because:
    - I am too lazy to do it in my off days
    - my strength training is more important for now and if I do plyos first I can't lift as much

    Sure, I am fatigued and it takes a hit.
    I said to do it after because in OP's case strength training should probably also be more important.

    Some plyos can be done for higher reps.
    Not jumps, of course.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDfLHN_EKM
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    Originally Posted by coachcalande View Post
    He’s looking great in his 50s and just had a fight a couple of months ago.
    Must be doing plyos instead of boxing training.

    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    Again, this has nothing to do with OP, it's off topic.
    Doesn't matter if you are not a professional athlete who needs that 1-3-5% extra speed, explosivness or endurance.
    But, to a certain degree, adding muscle mass in time >>> slower and less endurance.
    Tyson was fast and explosive, but for a HW.
    There are many smaller boxers much faster than him.
    Usually, small fighters (featherweights, lightweights) have far more cardio and they are much faster.
    Your advice also likely has nothing to do with OP, other than reinforcing what he thinks is the solution.

    In reality, it sounds like he wasn’t that athletic to begin with, has put on a bunch of fat to go along with any muscle, and hadn’t played sports in a long time. Not surprising he’d be less athletic.

    Doing plyos instead of just actually playing sports or even just doing some cardio isn’t some magical solution.
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    What we need to remember is that coralation =/= causation..

    Getting bigger is one thing.. But sacrificing your athletic requirements just for size is a very different deal. <--
    Me doesn't need to happen.

    That's just mediocre programming/coaching. And a blatant pitfall for even a semi experienced coach to see a mile away.
    It's honestly very obvious who has only ever trained them selves and has no real experience outside of genpop lifting for a bit of size and strength.

    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    True with the adaptations.
    But I prefer to do it after because:
    - I am too lazy to do it in my off days
    - my strength training is more important for now and if I do plyos first I can't lift as much

    Sure, I am fatigued and it takes a hit.
    I said to do it after because in OP's case strength training should probably also be more important.

    Some plyos can be done for higher reps.
    Not jumps, of course.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDfLHN_EKM
    Essentially you said you are giving sub optimal advice because you're lazy and don't understand the different energy systems and how to coach/program for an athlete.

    You have decent knowledge and probably a good amount of experience at hypertrophy like most dedicated gym rats. That's a decent place to be at really, and will do well for most recreational lifting questions.
    Last edited by MyEgoProblem; 08-01-2021 at 11:44 AM.
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    OP, a couple thoughts:

    1. If you recently played football and felt heavier, slower, and more stiff, that implies you haven't been dong any conditioning work or athletic work at all. Otherwise you wouldn't be surprised by how you feel. Thus, simply incorporating any conditioning to get back in shape will help you. Losing any excess body fat will help you.

    2. If you want to incorporate specific athletic type movements, consider plyometrics but also more power-oriented exercises such as jump squats, the various clean/snatch various, jerks/push presses, etc. I seriously think though you will be much better served just dong general conditioning work and building up to incorporating sprints as well as several jumps a session without doing fancier exercises or programming (at least initially). Start by doing some running, gradually increasing the pace until you can do sprints without risk of injury, and then start incorporating 5-10 short sprints each session (like 10-20 minutes, it's the start that will get you the most bang for your buck). Same thing with jumps, build up to doing 5 sets of 3-5 jumps a few times a week as well.
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    Originally Posted by mmmh98 View Post
    I recently played football, but felt a lot heavier, slower and more stiff than i used to be.
    So how long had it been since you had played football. I'd gather that you feel heavier than you used to feel because you've added (significant?) weight/fat.

    I'd gather that you feel slower and stiffer because you are (significantly?) heavier, PLUS out of shape. Again, how long has it been since you last played?
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    Essentially you said you are giving sub optimal advice because you're lazy and don't understand the different energy systems and how to coach/program for an athlete.
    .
    He isn't an athlete.
    My advice was to incorporate plyos in his off days or after weight training.
    I understand that you have a problem with him doing plyos after lifting.
    And I agree that athletes do plyos before.
    But again, he isn't an athlete.
    From my experience, when I did plyos before, my lifting suffered and quite much.
    The more experienced fighters I know, for example, do bag work, speed work and jump rope and they lfit some weight.
    But they have different purposes.
    In his case, I thought his main goal is weight training.

    Again, I agree with what you said, but I don't believe my advice was wrong.
    He can try both both and whatever.
    Better would be off days, like I said in the first.
    "Reminds me of the good ol' days back in 03-04 when ripptoes/5 by 5/hit/doggcrap reigned supreme and you did not need direct arm work for big biceps. Rows and chins were it. "Ever see a guy rowing 300+lbs with chicken arms?". Ah yes those were the days. God bless amusclehead and his twisted one dimensional views along with the rest of the former flock."
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    Try for everything, end up with nothing - be careful not to spread yourself too thin. If you have a sport specific goal, i'd stick to that, and train like an athlete of that sport does. Just my opinion but no, if I wanted to be the best baseball player I could for example, I wouldn't invest any of the precious time I have in the day on another activity like bodybuilding. It wouldn't get me any closer to my primary objective. Think about what your goals are and prioritize them.
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    He isn't an athlete.
    My advice was to incorporate plyos in his off days or after weight training.
    I understand that you have a problem with him doing plyos after lifting.
    And I agree that athletes do plyos before.
    But again, he isn't an athlete.
    From my experience, when I did plyos before, my lifting suffered and quite much.
    The more experienced fighters I know, for example, do bag work, speed work and jump rope and they lfit some weight.
    But they have different purposes.
    In his case, I thought his main goal is weight training.

    Again, I agree with what you said, but I don't believe my advice was wrong.
    He can try both both and whatever.
    Better would be off days, like I said in the first.
    Most people are a detriment to them selves. And don't know how to actually train for their goals.
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    I used to tell myself squats and deadlifts would make me a better hockey player. Maybe it did a bit but playing hockey and drilling hockey skills made me a better hockey player.
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    I used to tell myself squats and deadlifts would make me a better hockey player. Maybe it did a bit but playing hockey and drilling hockey skills made me a better hockey player.
    Being more muscular, stronger and faster certainly did help your hockey game.

    I can personally attest to this for my self and many others of many sports..
    But lifting is only gpp for the sport.

    100% game skill training is king for sure.
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    Being more muscular, stronger and faster certainly did help your hockey game.

    I can personally attest to this for my self and many others of many sports..
    But lifting is only gpp for the sport.

    100% game skill training is king for sure.
    My first step was slower for sure. I actually think skating helped my squat and deadlift more than the other way around.

    By that, I mean my ability to mentally push through fatigue and resistance.
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    It's weird for me because I do a bit of running (really, jogging) and I find that that gets the blood flowing and works the legs and has a mild anabolic effect (odd). I don't overdo it though. It's mostly just to burn some extra calories and make my abs more visible. It's more of a leg workout for me tbh, rather than cardio.

    I also lift heavy at the gym from time to time - although my bench has really suffered since February 2020 what with all of this "war" cr@p that's been going on. You know, I've dropped like 60kg in my bench and I haven't made a really strong effort to bounce it back up. But I'm mixing up my activities now anyway, but still lift a little heavy on the dumbbells now and then...
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    This is what happens

    Adding muscle mass won't slow you down. Unless hyp training takes away time from your athletic training.

    Getting Fat and not training your agility and speed ect slows you down...
    So much bro fallacy that muscle = slow
    Originally Posted by mmmh98 View Post
    Hey everybody.


    Is it possible to bulk and lift heavy speights, but still be good at sports and maintain athleticism? By adding pylos maybe?

    I recently played football, but felt a lot heavier, slower and more stiff than i used to be. I used to be very agile, Quick and smooth. I have bulked a lot so probably thats it?

    I do a Push pull leg workout with a 6 Day split. Push pull leg rest and repeat.

    My main priority is hypertrophy, but i still want to be athletic. Like i want to sprint fast, get agile, flexible, jumo High etc.

    Is that possible by maybe adding 2 plyometric exercises before my heavy lifitng? Or what do you Think i should do
    If you keep up with the sports training along with your strength conditioning then your athletiscism should only get better!

    As previously said muscle won't make you slower!
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