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  1. #1
    Registered User antjone's Avatar
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    3x8 or 3x5 for 52yo Man

    Hello old friends
    Long time no posting
    I'm 52 and been lifting weights for about 5 years.
    Last year has gone well, I've been doing the Greyskull Programme, but I also piled on 5kg with LockDown SourDough Success

    I was up to weighing 92kg, 110 squat, 115 deadlift, 75kg bench, 40kg OHP.
    I'm now down to 87kg (16:8 IF, weekend drinking) and my numbers are down a little, but nothing major.

    I haven't been doing cardio, and am about to start on the Concept 2 rower when (if) it arrives.

    I am thinking about switching from GSLP 3x5 to 3x8 with the same programme.
    My squats drop from 110 to 90 doing 3x8, but I feel DOMS again! 3x8 at bodyweight feels more tiring afterwards, but less stressful than 3x5 at 120% bodyweight at the time.
    I could feel my chest was more tired after 3x8 bench.

    I appreciate I could just run it for a month, but I'm worried my 3x5 numbers won't be recoverable.
    I am interested to know which one will fit in better with me starting cardio.

    All thoughts and advice appreciated.
    Thank you.
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  2. #2
    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    Given the last set of the greyskulls 3x5+ is an amrap..
    I'd not make this change to the main lifts for my self b or my people.

    Ive had a few people on this and they where hitting
    5/5/10+ and giving the last set real effort.
    I ran it my self too years ago.. The last set really is the money maker, especially if you are following the program with the frequency method layer.

    If you feel you need more 'pump'.. add a lift. It's all covered in the book in the plugins section in think.

    Or do whatever. No n big deal.
    No one will come for you and you won't die if you change it.
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  3. #3
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter that much. Just pick a program you like (on the basis of the exercises not the rep ranges) and go with what it says.

    There isn't the sharp distinction between strength and mass training that some people think there is based on rep range. It's actually possible to grow muscle in a very wide range of reps - and the range you choose should suit the exercise, there shouldn't be a blanket prescription... IMO....

    FWIW I am only 3 years younger than you and use anything from 1 rep to 20+ reps for different exercises.
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  4. #4
    Da1UnV bodyhard's Avatar
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    Not understanding the age question vs rep/set range...
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    Originally Posted by bodyhard View Post
    Not understanding the age question vs rep/set range...
    But were you able to translate kilograms to freedom digits?
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    Da1UnV bodyhard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    But were you able to translate kilograms to freedom digits?
    Didn't read anything past the age comment....
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  7. #7
    Registered User antjone's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bodyhard View Post
    Not understanding the age question vs rep/set range...
    Fair point. I was wondering if being an older lifter might influence the answer. If not, great.

    Thank you also to the other repliers, who seems relaxed about the lack of a "best" answer.

    I am definitely finding 3x8 sessions leave my muscles feeling more battered, and I can see higher volume needing better endurance, which should fit with the extra cardio rowing.
    I mention my age partly as I am looking at what to do for the next decade till I retire, and I think a bit more cardio and endurance makes sense, with 3x8 maintaining muscle and bone density.
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  8. #8
    Registered User antjone's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    But were you able to translate kilograms to freedom digits?
    Good point.
    I do feel a little guilty using metric system, but it is so easy.
    What about all the stuff I learned at school:
    12 inches to a foot, 3 foot to a yard, 1760 yards to a mile, 22.6 yards to a chain, 4π to a furlong, 1.1 furlongs to a cough, 28 ⓿◻✗ to a groat, etc.
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  9. #9
    Crawling back under rock OldFartTom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    But were you able to translate kilograms to freedom digits?
    eh? pounds, ounces, miles, these are all burdens from your days as British colony.
    I thought you guys wanted to be independent and free? You cast off the British and accepted the statue of liberty from France, changed to ride on the right (i.e. wrong) side of the road, so why don't you move over to the French units too and not the old British ones. Aren't Kg the "freedom" ones?
    Edit, even the British admit that they are awful and went metric (since 1972)#

    Originally Posted by antjone View Post
    ...using metric system, but it is so easy...
    The old system is awful, that said, and maybe bizarely... I can think in fathoms as well as metres, reading very old surveys (pre WW2) they are in ftms
    Last edited by OldFartTom; 05-05-2021 at 06:41 AM.
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  10. #10
    Registered User antjone's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    eh? pounds, ounces, miles, these are all burdens from your days as British colony.
    I thought you guys wanted to be independent and free?
    Lolz
    Australia and Ireland couldn't wait to go metric.
    Growing American resistance to metric is very interesting, with zones of metric existing (eg NASA) there. Interesting how dull issues can be politicized like this (see also face masks, the UK not accepting it is a part of continental Europe, the unacceptability of men saying "Wonderful!").

    However, I still describe myself as 6ft as it has more kudos (despite being 5ft11 these days - you're allowed to still claim your maximum value), and babies are always weighed in lbs.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by antjone View Post
    Fair point. I was wondering if being an older lifter might influence the answer. If not, great.

    .
    Age has nothing to do with sets and reps, age will factor in on recovery time depending on your intensity during your workouts.
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  12. #12
    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    eh? pounds, ounces, miles, these are all burdens from your days as British colony.
    I thought you guys wanted to be independent and free? You cast off the British and accepted the statue of liberty from France, changed to ride on the right (i.e. wrong) side of the road, so why don't you move over to the French units too and not the old British ones. Aren't Kg the "freedom" ones?
    Edit, even the British admit that they are awful and went metric (since 1972)#

    The old system is awful, that said, and maybe bizarely... I can think in fathoms as well as metres, reading very old surveys (pre WW2) they are in ftms
    I was just joking. I'm Finnish and we use kg's too.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by antjone View Post
    Fair point. I was wondering if being an older lifter might influence the answer. If not, great.
    Not directly, just if you personally find certain rep ranges (whether higher or lower) for certain exercises feel better to you due to any nagging arthritis, tendonitis, strains, old injuries, etc. But that could really be at any age.
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  14. #14
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    At a certain age injury prevention and longevity become priorities. I have turned 54 and it's now the case with me.

    I consider myself fortunate to have reached 54 without injury. I can keep going for a few more decades if I listen to my body and workout smart.

    Working out smart means amongst other things favouring higher reps vs lower reps.
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  15. #15
    Registered User antjone's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheResistance View Post
    At a certain age injury prevention and longevity become priorities. ...

    I consider myself fortunate to have reached 54 without injury. ...

    Working out smart means amongst other things favouring higher reps vs lower reps.
    I wonder if dropping 20kg from squat and going from 5 to 8 (but on the same programme) suits me at 52, esp as I'm looking to lose 5kg weight and be a little cardio-fitter.

    Any other tips for the older lifter, Mr Resistance?
    I'm quite injury-free too, but I think this is down to only starting late in life after doing almost no sport or exercise.
    People who've done 20 years of sports usually have something crock (I live in an area where rugby is popular and I could win "Local Rotator Cuffs and Knees Of The Year" every year)
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    Originally Posted by antjone View Post
    I wonder if dropping 20kg from squat and going from 5 to 8 (but on the same programme) suits me at 52, esp as I'm looking to lose 5kg weight and be a little cardio-fitter.

    Any other tips for the older lifter, Mr Resistance?
    I'm quite injury-free too, but I think this is down to only starting late in life after doing almost no sport or exercise.
    People who've done 20 years of sports usually have something crock (I live in an area where rugby is popular and I could win "Local Rotator Cuffs and Knees Of The Year" every year)
    It doesn't matter since you're supposed to change your reps periodically anyway. If you do a program with lower reps for some time, and let's say switch to higher rep program, you might see surprising gainz. So it's not like you do some magical set/rep combo for the rest of your life.
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    But were you able to translate kilograms to freedom digits?
    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    I was just joking. I'm Finnish and we use kg's too.
    I thought you were referencing 'Murica and freedom (Independence, Don't Tread On Me) digits.
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    Originally Posted by PhDPepper1111 View Post
    I thought you were referencing 'Murica and freedom (Independence, Don't Tread On Me) digits.
    I was..to rustle Europeans..even though I'm European too lol. And 'Murican too since double citizenship
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    Very little difference between the 2. If you've been doing 3x8, switch it up and try 3x5, and vice versa. Switch it up once you've plateaued (no improvement of any kind in 5-6 weeks or more). Don't change what's working, unless you're really bored with it and it's negatively affecting your workout.

    The most important things...

    - You're training with a high level of effort
    - You're making progress in some form

    3x8 might be a bit better due to slightly less strain on joints since the weight is lighter since reps are higher.

    3x8 will also require a bit more recovery most likely since it's more volume.
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    Originally Posted by antjone View Post
    Good point.
    I do feel a little guilty using metric system, but it is so easy.
    What about all the stuff I learned at school:
    12 inches to a foot, 3 foot to a yard, 1760 yards to a mile, 22.6 yards to a chain, 4π to a furlong, 1.1 furlongs to a cough, 28 ⓿������◻✗ to a groat, etc.
    Yeah, but there's still lots to memorize with the metric system:

    water freezes at 0C and boils at 100C
    1 liter of water weighs 1 kg
    1 cc of water weighs 1 mg

    It's confusing
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    4 x 8 quite honestly. But I also don't get the age and rep thing.
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    I am a supporter of periodization, therefore I would advise you to use both of these load protocols.
    Block 1 Main load protocol 3x8-10
    Block 2 Main load protocol 3x5-6.
    Alternate these blocks or (for middle aged athletes) use 2 blocks of strength endurance and 1 block of strength.
    bench press 167.5 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    standing press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
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    Crawling back under rock OldFartTom's Avatar
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    Oleg, welcome back. I haven't seen your posts for a while.
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    Oleg, welcome back. I haven't seen your posts for a while.
    Hi Tom! Yes, for a long time I did not go to the "enemy" forum))) But I did not stop training all this time, with a break for covid + pneumonia. ))) Now I have restored almost all the best indicators of strength.
    DL 150 kg x17 now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H6Ggb5d6IQ&t=1s
    Last edited by Oleg1975K; 05-13-2021 at 10:38 AM.
    bench press 167.5 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    standing press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
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  25. #25
    Crawling back under rock OldFartTom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oleg1975K View Post
    Hi Tom! Yes, for a long time I did not go to the "enemy" forum))) But I did not stop training all this time, with a break for covid + pneumonia. ))) Now I have restored almost all the best indicators of strength.
    DL 150 kg x17 now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H6Ggb5d6IQ&t=1s
    Good to hear you're well. Taking a quick look at your recent YouTube videos, you're still strong especially multi rep strong, so whatever you're doing is working
    Faith in Jesus first and faith in squats second.
    Then other details will start to slot themselves into place.
    Bodyweight 74kg (16/June/2021)
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  26. #26
    Registered User buchwachattack's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by antjone View Post
    I wonder if dropping 20kg from squat and going from 5 to 8 (but on the same programme) suits me at 52, esp as I'm looking to lose 5kg weight and be a little cardio-fitter.

    Any other tips for the older lifter, Mr Resistance?
    I'm quite injury-free too, but I think this is down to only starting late in life after doing almost no sport or exercise.
    People who've done 20 years of sports usually have something crock (I live in an area where rugby is popular and I could win "Local Rotator Cuffs and Knees Of The Year" every year)
    It's always best to train in a variety of rep ranges. You should experiment and see what gives you the best feel, both in terms of your joints and the pump. Effort and progression over time is they, as others have said.

    Some movements lend themselves more to higher vs. lower reps. For example, unless you have a very efficient sumo deadlift, I wouldn't advise DLs for sets of 15. But I regularly do very strict, slow eccentric stiff-legged DLs for sets of 8-10, and they're fantastic.
    Follow my training log @andrewbuchwach
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  27. #27
    temporary illusion supramax's Avatar
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    antjone,

    I highly recommend DUP, daily undulating periodization. There are many ways to implement it.

    Here's a few links:

    https://www.rudymawer.com/blog/daily...periodization/

    https://www.strongerbyscience.com/da...periodization/

    http://www.jmaxfitness.com/blog/dail...periodization/
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

    It's easy to not be afraid of tigers when you're sitting in your living room watching a television program about tigers. When you're in the jungle where the tigers are, it's quite a different story.
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