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  1. #1
    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Casein is overrated?

    Ok, nothing against casein at all. I was thinking about trying it out the other day as something before bed but then I heard Eric Helms talk about how having eggs or a steak is already a slow digesting protein source just like casein. So in essence if I have a steak for dinner, then I'll have the same slow digesting protein effect as just taking in pure casein would be.

    Thoughts?
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    From what I gather the difference in results from going with casein vs whey at bedtime are at best minimal and likely not significant statistically. It's mostly marketing hype to convince you to keep 2 tubs of protein in your pantry versus 1.
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    Ok, nothing against casein at all. I was thinking about trying it out the other day as something before bed but then I heard Eric Helms talk about how having eggs or a steak is already a slow digesting protein source just like casein. So in essence if I have a steak for dinner, then I'll have the same slow digesting protein effect as just taking in pure casein would be.

    Thoughts?
    It’s just protein...

    You can just eat Greek yogurt or cottage cheese too.

    It’s not going to make a noticeable difference in the long term.

    Daily protein intake is the most important thing... especially if you’re already eating 3+ protein rich meals per day

    Personally the idea of having a stomach full of protein before bed sounds bad because it will impact my sleep... and if I drank it, I’ll just get up to pee more
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    Super Spreader desslok's Avatar
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    Milk is about 80% casein. Strained things like greek yogurt and cottage cheese are even higher percentage. So drinking a glass of chocolate milk at night is “having casein” at night. Sure, there is less fancy buzzwords on the label, and its not gonna make or break anything. Just find what fits your wallet and your taste buds.
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    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    I see, thanks guys.
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    Gaintaining Mrpb's Avatar
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    It seems like you're interested in 2 different questions:
    - is pre bed protein overrated?
    - is casein overrated?

    To the first one: pre bed protein may have a specific benefit but so far the long term studies conducted haven't really shown a significant benefit. This may be because the studies weren't strong enough or it may be that pre bed protein just doesn't have a specific benefit.

    If you have diner at say 19:00 it's likely that muscle protein balance will go negative overnight. Not a big deal but if you're someone that's determined to maximise muscle building I'd recommend having sufficient pre bed protein. Having steak at say 19:00 is unlikely to maximise overnight muscle protein synthesis. Having the steak at 23:00 would work better.

    To the second one: it's just a slow digesting protein powder.

    It's questionable whether pre bed protein really has to be slow digesting. There isn't any study that has compared whey and casein overnight.
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    Chihuahua in the rain Corbets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    It seems like you're interested in 2 different questions:
    - is pre bed protein overrated?
    - is casein overrated?

    To the first one: pre bed protein may have a specific benefit but so far the long term studies conducted haven't really shown a significant benefit. This may be because the studies weren't strong enough or it may be that pre bed protein just doesn't have a specific benefit.

    If you have diner at say 19:00 it's likely that muscle protein balance will go negative overnight. Not a big deal but if you're someone that's determined to maximise muscle building I'd recommend having sufficient pre bed protein. Having steak at say 19:00 is unlikely to maximise overnight muscle protein synthesis. Having the steak at 23:00 would work better.
    Kinda depends when you go to sleep. Those of us who roll out around 4:30 am just might benefit from that 1900 meal.
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  8. #8
    Gaintaining Mrpb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Corbets View Post
    Kinda depends when you go to sleep. Those of us who roll out around 4:30 am just might benefit from that 1900 meal.
    True. If you go to bed at 20:00 your 19:00 meal becomes your pre bed meal.
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  9. #9
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post

    If you have diner at say 19:00 it's likely that muscle protein balance will go negative overnight.
    By this do you mean breakdown would start exceeding synthetic rate?

    I wonder if that has been measured during sleep before... I always intuitively thought that hormonal changes (ie: GH), in addition to the lack of movement overnight, would mitigate some of that problem.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    By this do you mean breakdown would start exceeding synthetic rate?
    .
    Yes. MPS becomes very low and MPB starts exceeding it. It's been measured during sleep.

    Ps. Lack of movement is bad for MPS.
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  11. #11
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Yes. MPS becomes very low and MPB starts exceeding it. It's been measured during sleep.

    Ps. Lack of movement is bad for MPS.
    Interesting. I know chronic lack of movement during waking hours is bad for MPS but always figured sleep in normal amounts would be protective
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    Ok, nothing against casein at all. I was thinking about trying it out the other day as something before bed but then I heard Eric Helms talk about how having eggs or a steak is already a slow digesting protein source just like casein. So in essence if I have a steak for dinner, then I'll have the same slow digesting protein effect as just taking in pure casein would be.

    Thoughts?
    Its still milk protein wich has a very good amino acids profile and a very good net utilization rate. So it's better than red meat or fish, but not better than yogurt.
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