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  1. #1
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    Proof Lamar is elite and a top 5 QB

    Lamar has been playing with dogchit receivers his whole career. Last season his team lead the league in drops with 7.5%, no other team had above 7%;
    https://twitter.com/QBDataMine/statu...95032026701830. On top of that none of these guys get any separation other than Hollywood and Mandrews when hes not double covered

    Last season he was playing without his LT, the right side of his line was basically as bad as Mahomes has in the Super Bowl that people are giving him a free pass for

    The passing schemes have been heavily criticised by former player and analysts, Greg Roman does not set up the offense for Lamar to succeed in the passing game. Here is Kurt Warner ripping the passing offense apart;





    And yet he still has top 5 career PASSING stats of current QBs, on top of being the most dynamic running threat the NFL has ever seen from the QB position



    Passer Rating
    1 Patrick Mahomes 108.7
    2 Deshaun Watson 104.5
    3 Aaron Rodgers 103.9
    4 Lamar Jackson 102.6
    5 Russell Wilson 101.7
    6 Drew Brees 98.7
    7 Kirk Cousins 97.9
    8 Tom Brady 97.3
    9 Dak Prescott 97.3
    10 Philip Rivers 95.2


    TD/INT Ratio
    1 Patrick Mahomes 4.75
    2 Aaron Rodgers 4.63
    3 Lamar Jackson 3.78
    4 Russell Wilson 3.3
    5 Tom Brady 3.04
    6 Deshaun Watson 2.89
    7 Dak Prescott 2.65
    8 Derek Carr 2.39
    9 Drew Brees 2.35
    10 Kirk Cousins 2.26
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  2. #2
    Registered User BearyManilowe's Avatar
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    32nd ranked passing offense.
    Top 5 QB.

    Pick one.
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    cherry picking a few stats to make your point.

    Less than 200yds passing in 10 of 16 games last season

    "HeS eLiTe"
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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BearyManilowe View Post
    32nd ranked passing offense.
    Top 5 QB.

    Pick one.
    32nd in terms of yards because the Ravens dont throw with any volume. They have also rushed for over 3,000 yards as team both seasons, last year breaking the all time record

    Lamar has a career 7.5 yards per passing attempt, equal to Tom Brady.
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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dennis71 View Post
    cherry picking a few stats to make your point.

    Less than 200yds passing in 10 of 16 games last season

    "HeS eLiTe"

    Using Passer Rating is by definition not "cherry picking", as it takes into account all the important metrics


    the passing yards are low because of a lack of volume, nothing else
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  6. #6
    Registered User BearyManilowe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    32nd in terms of yards because the Ravens dont throw with any volume. They have also rushed for over 3,000 yards as team both seasons, last year breaking the all time record

    Lamar has a career 7.5 yards per passing attempt, equal to Tom Brady.
    Career Pass Attempts
    Lamar Jackson: 947
    Tom Brady: 519273 or something like that.

    Using an average stat is an odd metric to base your comparison on.

    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Using Passer Rating is by definition not "cherry picking", as it takes into account all the important metrics


    the passing yards are low because of a lack of volume, nothing else
    Career Pass Attempts:
    Lamar Jackson: 947
    Closest guy to him is Patrick Mahomes with 1600 or so.

    On their current trajectory, Lamar Jackson won't even come close to that number of completions until the end of 2022 and his passer rating is already flopping.

    Proof Lamar is not an elite QB?

    4 Playoff Games, 1 win, 3 losses.
    Playoff Passer Rating: 68.3
    Playoff Completion %: 55.9
    Playoff TD/INT Ratio: 0.6
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  7. #7
    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BearyManilowe View Post
    Career Pass Attempts
    Lamar Jackson: 947
    Tom Brady: 519273 or something like that.

    Using an average stat is an odd metric to base your comparison on.



    Career Pass Attempts:
    Lamar Jackson: 947
    Closest guy to him is Patrick Mahomes with 1600 or so.

    On their current trajectory, Lamar Jackson won't even come close to that number of completions until the end of 2022 and his passer rating is already flopping.

    Proof Lamar is not an elite QB?

    4 Playoff Games, 1 win, 3 losses.
    Playoff Passer Rating: 68.3
    Playoff Completion %: 55.9
    Playoff TD/INT Ratio: 0.6
    So 37 career starts in the regular season is too small of a sample

    But 4 playoff games isn't?




    Its easy to look bad in a small sample of playoff games;

    Joe Montana in his prime with Jerry Rice between 85 and 87;

    0 TD, 4 Interceptions, 52% completions

    3 games, 3 losses
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  8. #8
    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    "Lamar Jackson's passer rating is flopping".

    Lamar's passer rating last year = 99.3

    Tom Brady Career = 97.3



    Again thats despite the limitations of probably the worst receivers in the league, and his Left Tackle going down
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  9. #9
    Registered User BearyManilowe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    So 37 career starts in the regular season is too small of a sample

    But 4 playoff games isn't?




    Its easy to look bad in a small sample of playoff games;

    Joe Montana in his prime with Jerry Rice between 85 and 87;

    0 TD, 4 Interceptions, 52% completions

    3 games, 3 losses
    So what you're saying is there is absolutely no proof because we haven't actually seen enough of Jackson in any capacity?

    Cool. Thanks. We'll keep that in mind. Top 5 QB. ****ing lol.
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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BearyManilowe View Post
    So what you're saying is there is absolutely no proof because we haven't actually seen enough of Jackson in any capacity?

    Cool. Thanks. We'll keep that in mind. Top 5 QB. ****ing lol.
    30-7 as a starter

    MVP

    Top 5 passing stats plus GOAT rushing stats

    All despite the limitations listed in the OP



    Thats enough to show he's a top 5 current QB.

    In total we have 41 games of Lamar's to look at as of right now. Thats the same as Mahomes had after week 5 of this season, would you have said at that point we didnt have enough data to call him elite?
    Last edited by LukeS1; 02-15-2021 at 05:03 AM.
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  11. #11
    Registered User BearyManilowe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    30-7 as a starter

    MVP

    Top 5 passing stats plus GOAT rushing stats

    All despite the limitations listed in the OP



    Thats enough to show he's a top 5 current QB


    You started this thread without being open to exploring any alternative other than the 2 stats you purposely cherry picked.

    Lamar was pressured at about the league average. He attempts 20 passes per game in his career.

    To my knowledge, the closest comparison to his numbers would be Tannehill in Tennessee at 27 passes per game.

    Tannehill's stats since being in Tennessee. Roughly the same length of playtime.

    26 games. 18-8.
    6500 yards (500 less than Lamar despite playing 11 less games)
    55 TD, 13 INT or a ratio of 4.23 (Lamar at a paltry 3.78)
    8.6 Yards per attempt (Lamar at a pedestrian 7.5)
    110.6 Passer Rating (Or to be more precise, the best Passer Rating in history, lol at 102)
    7 4th Quarter Comeback (to Lamar's horrible 2)
    9 Game Winning Drives (to Lamar's 4)
    234.3 YPG (to Lamar's 154.0)

    Tannehill is hands down the best Quarterback to play the game since joining the Titans.
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  12. #12
    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BearyManilowe View Post
    [Img]https://img-comment-fun.9cache.com/media/abyypWp/aXPJ30zx_700w_0.jpg
    You started this thread without being open to exploring any alternative other than the 2 stats you purposely cherry picked.

    Lamar was pressured at about the league average. He attempts 20 passes per game in his career.

    To my knowledge, the closest comparison to his numbers would be Tannehill in Tennessee at 27 passes per game.

    Tannehill's stats since being in Tennessee. Roughly the same length of playtime.

    26 games. 18-8.
    6500 yards (500 less than Lamar despite playing 11 less games)
    55 TD, 13 INT or a ratio of 4.23 (Lamar at a paltry 3.78)
    8.6 Yards per attempt (Lamar at a pedestrian 7.5)
    110.6 Passer Rating (Or to be more precise, the best Passer Rating in history, lol at 102)
    7 4th Quarter Comeback (to Lamar's horrible 2)
    9 Game Winning Drives (to Lamar's 4)
    234.3 YPG (to Lamar's 154.0)

    Tannehill is hands down the best Quarterback to play the game since joining the Titans.

    26 games is "roughly the same" as 37?

    LOL @ saying more 4th quarter comebacks is a good thing, when you picked a set of games he went 18-8 when Lamar is 30-7.


    LOL @ saying career passer rating is a "cherry picked" stat when you picked a particular 26 game stretch of an average career when he happened to be playing with Derrick Henry, AJ Brown and Corey Davis. What do you reckon Lamar's stat line would be if he had those 3 these past two years?
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  13. #13
    Registered User BearyManilowe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    26 games is "roughly the same" as 37?

    LOL @ saying more 4th quarter comebacks is a good thing, when you picked a set of games he went 18-8 when Lamar is 30-7.


    LOL @ saying career passer rating is a "cherry picked" stat when you picked a particular 26 game stretch of an average career when he happened to be playing with Derrick Henry, AJ Brown and Corey Davis. What do you reckon Lamar's stat line would be if he had those 3 these past two years?
    Lol @ missing the point.
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    The world "Elite" is getting thrown around too easily these days. Jackson is an elite athlete, but not an elite QB. I have no negative bias either, I love watchin Jackson play, but he is not in that Tier A of QBs.
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    Originally Posted by BearyManilowe View Post
    Lol @ missing the point.
    It doesnt really seem like you have one, other than saying 41 games isn't enough data to call him elite



    I hope you were consistent in saying the same about Mahomes at week 5 of this season
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    Mahomes
    Rodgers
    Allen
    Wilson
    Baker

    There’s proof Lamar isn’t too 5. Want some more proof?

    Murray, Brady, Herbert, burrow, Watson, tannehill.
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    Originally Posted by JUGGERNAUT1333 View Post
    The world "Elite" is getting thrown around too easily these days. Jackson is an elite athlete, but not an elite QB. I have no negative bias either, I love watchin Jackson play, but he is not in that Tier A of QBs.
    For me top 5-7 at your position is "elite", fair enough if you see it different

    I cant see any reason to put Lamar below any QBs except Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Watson and Allen
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    Originally Posted by SmashinYoungVag View Post
    Mahomes
    Rodgers
    Allen
    Wilson
    Baker

    There’s proof Lamar isn’t too 5. Want some more proof?

    Murray, Brady, Herbert, burrow, Watson, tannehill.
    Kyler Murray is literally just a poverty version of Lamar.

    He has Nuk and still can't come close to Lamar's stats


    Mayfield has two elite wideouts, a top 5 offensive line, 2 great running backs etc and still his passing stats arent nearly as good as Lamar. I dont even need to mention his rushing ability
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    For me top 5-7 at your position is "elite", fair enough if you see it different

    I cant see any reason to put Lamar below any QBs except Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Watson and Allen
    Don't disagree with your ranking, but Elite should be reserved for the best of the best. Rodgers and Mahomes IMO are the only QBs that deserve the Elite title.
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Kyler Murray is literally just a poverty version of Lamar.

    He has Nuk and still can't come close to Lamar's stats


    Mayfield has two elite wideouts, a top 5 offensive line, 2 great running backs etc and still his passing stats arent nearly as good as Lamar. I dont even need to mention his rushing ability
    Can’t come close to his stats except that Murray had a better completion percentage, 1k more yards, and the same TDs
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    Originally Posted by SmashinYoungVag View Post
    Can’t come close to his stats except that Murray had a better completion percentage, 1k more yards, and the same TDs
    Lamar has more yards per attempt, completion percentage would be higher if they didnt have so many drops

    Last season they both had 26 passing TDs sure, but Lamar played 1 game less and Kyler had 48% more attempts overall



    Career passer rating - Lamar has 102.6, Kyler has 90.9.

    Rushing yards per game last 2 seasons = Lamar 73.7, Kyler 42.6


    Id love to see what Lamar could do with a WR1 like Nuk as well
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Lamar has more yards per attempt, completion percentage would be higher if they didnt have so many drops

    Last season they both had 26 passing TDs sure, but Lamar played 1 game less and Kyler had 48% more attempts overall



    Career passer rating - Lamar has 102.6, Kyler has 90.9.

    Rushing yards per game last 2 seasons = Lamar 73.7, Kyler 42.6


    Id love to see what Lamar could do with a WR1 like Nuk as well
    Baltimore was 23rd in dropped passes, they only had 16. Arizona was last with 9. But still Baltimore will never be near the top in that stat since Lamar is scared to throw against good teams
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    Originally Posted by SmashinYoungVag View Post
    Baltimore was 23rd in dropped passes, they only had 16. Arizona was last with 9. But still Baltimore will never be near the top in that stat since Lamar is scared to throw against good teams
    As referenced in the OP, the Ravens had the highest drop as a percentage, by quite a distance as well. Passing volumes were a lot lower than other teams through scheme and a lot of games with solid leads in the second half


    Passing volume is down to Greg Roman, not Lamar
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    I’m not convinced opie, if he could actually throw Greg would let him pass more.

    If anything Greg is protecting Lamar by not calling more pass plays.

    Also, 1-3 in playoff games, and he regressed this year.

    It’s not Greg Roman. It’s not the scheme.

    Greg is doing what he can with what he has, he was a genius according to everyone two seasons ago, the man didn’t simply forget how to call plays.

    The league adjusted.

    And 2022 is going to be worse.
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    OP is back for more I see.
    JJ Watt is an overrated athlete plus a fake nice guy whose ligaments are as strong as the foundations of every home in Houston that gets obliterated during Hurricane season.
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    In terms of actual ability he's borderline top 10 at best. Typical flavor of the year running QB that fizzles out after all the media talking heads suck his dick after one good year. Defenses adjusted, he'll never come close to that MVP season again.
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    Originally Posted by Belome View Post
    I’m not convinced opie, if he could actually throw Greg would let him pass more.

    If anything Greg is protecting Lamar by not calling more pass plays.

    Also, 1-3 in playoff games, and he regressed this year.

    It’s not Greg Roman. It’s not the scheme.

    Greg is doing what he can with what he has, he was a genius according to everyone two seasons ago, the man didn’t simply forget how to call plays.

    The league adjusted.

    And 2022 is going to be worse.
    Greg runs so much because the rushing offense is so effective

    5.5 yards a carry and 3,000 yards. I think this and last year are 1 and 4 most rushing yards ever by a team

    The offense ranked 7th for points last year, and 1st for points in 2019




    Simply put, the Ravens don't pass much because they don't need to to be an effective offense, and because a lack of receivers
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Greg runs so much because the rushing offense is so effective

    5.5 yards a carry and 3,000 yards. I think this and last year are 1 and 4 most rushing yards ever by a team

    The offense ranked 7th for points last year, and 1st for points in 2019




    Simply put, the Ravens don't pass much because they don't need to to be an effective offense, and because a lack of receivers
    I mostly agree.

    I just disagree with the notion that Greg isn’t supporting Lamar like some are trying to spin.

    Imo Greg is doing everything imaginable to get the most out of Lamar... but this year everyone was blaming Greg for the slight drop off...

    It’s not Greg.
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    If you have to justify QB status with advanced stats you probably already lost the argument. Nobody is using deep statistical analysis to justify status of Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, wilson , ect..

    Stop trying to convince people jackson is a great pass first QB. He is average, but his rushing is elite therefore the success he has is what you see.
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    Pretty good at throwing for a running back
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