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  1. #1
    Registered User MuslimBrahSwag's Avatar
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    brahs who compete/train srsly only. Is there any point to training strength after

    Is there any point to training strength after a certain level?

    For example, all of my brahs that I train with in the UFC have left completely or left a good deal of weight training due to injuries.

    One of them is a UFC lhw who was dominating his division until he got his injury and another is a bw who use to be seriously juicy but it seems like he doesnt even lift anymore.

    I'm not able to ask them rn bc I'm coming back from shoulder surgery, so i wanted to get misks opinions.

    I was thinking, come back, get bench to 2 plates and only go for reps after that. same with squat and dead, 4 plates, then only do 4 plates for reps.

    The idea and my own experience is that from unlucky punches that land wrong, weird positions in grappling, etc, all of this forms lots of stress that coupled with massive weight leads to injury way easier.

    Both my wrestling and Thai coach, my thai coach being a legend in Thailand, up there with Samart, and my coach, coming from Iran so I don't think those credentials even need to be challenged, have told me not to lift at all.

    I think there could be some middle ground though and you just have to listen to your body, really really carefully. What do yall think?
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  2. #2
    Retired at 42 wave_length's Avatar
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    It's more the type of training rather than the weight. I e.g. quit heavy squatting and barbell benching long time ago but still get PRs on other lifts. Just raising the amount of reps only works for so long if the training is effective. When you’re at 25+ reps, you will have to go up in weight to progress.
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  3. #3
    Registered User MuslimBrahSwag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wave_length View Post
    It's more the type of training rather than the weight. I e.g. quit heavy squatting and barbell benching long time ago but still get PRs on other lifts. Just raising the amount of reps only works for so long if the training is effective. When you’re at 25+ reps, you will have to go up in weight to progress.
    whyd you quit those two lifts?
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  4. #4
    Retired at 42 wave_length's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MuslimBrahSwag View Post
    whyd you quit those two lifts?
    Injuries, plus felt wrong or hurt for my joints. Legpress and DBs do the same task with much less risk, at least for me.
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  5. #5
    Registered User savageoldman's Avatar
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    depends on your style imo

    strikers - no

    wrestlers, cage wrestlers - yes
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  6. #6
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    I don’t train “seriously” from a professional standpoint.

    But I train with the goal of maximizing my performance and to excel at bjj, and do 3-6 tournaments a year. (Obviously less this year, although did travel to Austin last month) I go through periods where I don’t lift at all and just roll/cardio but for the most part my training schedule is like this.

    Monday (yoga, core work, bjj, swimming)
    Tuesday (yoga, upper body lifting, bjj)
    Weds (yoga, bjj morning and afternoon, swimming)
    Thursday (yoga, lower body lifting, running)
    Friday (yoga, core work, no gi bjj, swimming)
    Saturday (yoga, rest)
    Sunday (yoga, running, rest)

    I typically either swim a mile under 40mins, or build up a pace then do progressive freestyle sprints, butterfly sprints, then cool down. Depending on how ****ed up my arms are, if I have been tweaking them/fighting subs to much I go easy and swim a mile, if they feel good I will do sprints. I run light on first running day like 3-4 miles then longer on second running day like 6-10 miles.

    Upper body lifting is basically bench press followed by band presses, and pull-ups followed by and pull downs. Ohp, followed by band work for shoulders.

    Lower body is figure eights in squat position holding dumbbells, and GHRs then my shorter run.
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  7. #7
    Registered User kusok's Avatar
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    It depends, but generally yes, strength training is helpful. For combat sports you must lift explosively, see how Jon Jones or Fedor do pull-ups on youtube VS how bodybuilders do them and you will see right away how to do this properly.

    For combat sports you would want to lift 2x weekly, full body, certainly not more than 3x weekly in which case you can do upper/lower alternating.

    It is very important for combat sports to do fight-specific resistance training. Neck (weighted stuff), push-ups on fingers, knuckles, and wrists (bent inward), you should progress until you can go one into the other with a jump.

    Generally strength will make a huge difference. A strongman white belt with basic skills in BJJ will beat a blue who doesn’t lift. In boxing Beterbiev mentions how simple bench pressing immediately improved his defense as his blocking obviously became much stronger. In Fedor/Big Foot you can clearly see that Fedor no longer lifted, and so was unable to explode from the bottom as he did earlier in his career, no chance Big Foot would hold down a 2001 245 lbs Fedor who benched 400 lbs. Strength is very helpful.
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  8. #8
    A BODYBUILDING GOD KingSWRV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MuslimBrahSwag View Post
    Is there any point to training strength after a certain level?

    For example, all of my brahs that I train with in the UFC have left completely or left a good deal of weight training due to injuries.

    One of them is a UFC lhw who was dominating his division until he got his injury and another is a bw who use to be seriously juicy but it seems like he doesnt even lift anymore.

    I'm not able to ask them rn bc I'm coming back from shoulder surgery, so i wanted to get misks opinions.

    I was thinking, come back, get bench to 2 plates and only go for reps after that. same with squat and dead, 4 plates, then only do 4 plates for reps.

    The idea and my own experience is that from unlucky punches that land wrong, weird positions in grappling, etc, all of this forms lots of stress that coupled with massive weight leads to injury way easier.

    Both my wrestling and Thai coach, my thai coach being a legend in Thailand, up there with Samart, and my coach, coming from Iran so I don't think those credentials even need to be challenged, have told me not to lift at all.

    I think there could be some middle ground though and you just have to listen to your body, really really carefully. What do yall think?
    So some random Asian who only fought other Asians told you not to lift and you believed him huh
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  9. #9
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    Take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't claim to be a professional or even an amateur mixed martial artist. I do train BJJ and muay thai and have been consistently for 2 years. I abandoned weightlifting totally. I would not recommend it and consider it counterproductive if you're aiming for hypertrophy or even low rep strength training.

    That's my opinion. No evidence or statistics to provide you. I'll use kettlebells, do pull ups, push ups, and squats all at bodyweight. You do what you want though. I think cardio and sport specific training is more important. Aerobic long runs and more intense anaerobic rounds of training at MT or BJJ imo will benefit a martial artist more than a 5x5 routine or some 5 day workout split.
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  10. #10
    Shiverin' since '92 Mr.PissShivers's Avatar
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    No of course not....Why would you want to fortify your body against injury and the guy across from you ready to fuk you up.
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  11. #11
    Never Breaks Kayfabe EidFnatic's Avatar
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    I seldom lift weights, do a lickle here and there, do plenty of stretching though, certain posture correcting movements too. I do a bit of running too. Most of my 'fitness', comes through hard training (lots of hard grappling rds, wrestling rds etc.. when I start competing in MMA again, next year hopefully I will also add in a few regular hard rds of MMA sparring) I grapple/train too often to lift weights regularly (with out dat dere). Just what I do.

    I train seriously and have competed in many MMA matches and will do once again when shows start up again. A couple of my best training partners, have never lifted, ever. Are good grapplers with solid strength.

    That said, Strength is a massive advantage.
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  12. #12
    Registered User MuslimBrahSwag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingSWRV View Post
    So some random Asian who only fought other Asians told you not to lift and you believed him huh
    you do realize the Thai's are better than pretty much everyone else at stand up fighting?

    Look at Buakaws run during K1, he was fighting people who specialized in only punch-kicks while he had to specialize punch-kick-knee-elbow-clinch in muay thai, yet he completely outclassed his position.

    And my coach came here in the late 80s and up until the 2000s him and the other thai guys were destroying much bigger American competitors who practiced various arts, karate, TKD, an KB.

    Also famous Australian MT fighter John Wayne Parr has said the same thing. The only thing he uses is calisthenics.
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  13. #13
    A BODYBUILDING GOD KingSWRV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MuslimBrahSwag View Post
    you do realize the Thai's are better than pretty much everyone else at stand up fighting?

    Look at Buakaws run during K1, he was fighting people who specialized in only punch-kicks while he had to specialize punch-kick-knee-elbow-clinch in muay thai, yet he completely outclassed his position.

    And my coach came here in the late 80s and up until the 2000s him and the other thai guys were destroying much bigger American competitors who practiced various arts, karate, TKD, an KB.

    Also famous Australian MT fighter John Wayne Parr has said the same thing. The only thing he uses is calisthenics.
    oh I didn't realize that

    thanks man
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  14. #14
    Real talk, peace. BobLoblawBrah's Avatar
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    Use weights but don't measure success in poundage like a bber or powerlifter.

    As with most sports it's about integrating strength into a style that works.
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  15. #15
    Registered User kusok's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MuslimBrahSwag View Post
    you do realize the Thai's are better than pretty much everyone else at stand up fighting?

    Look at Buakaws run during K1, he was fighting people who specialized in only punch-kicks while he had to specialize punch-kick-knee-elbow-clinch in muay thai, yet he completely outclassed his position.

    And my coach came here in the late 80s and up until the 2000s him and the other thai guys were destroying much bigger American competitors who practiced various arts, karate, TKD, an KB.

    Also famous Australian MT fighter John Wayne Parr has said the same thing. The only thing he uses is calisthenics.

    Guys from Holland would go to Thailand and beat everyone also. It depends on the individual. It’s all about the individual.

    When some western old style kickboxer underestimated low kicks, Thai guy promptly educated him by making him unable to walk, and the fight is thus stopped. But then a Japanese or Western kickboxer goes to Thailand and Thais’ boxing wasn’t great, so the Thai gets KTFO by a boxing combination and learn his lesson about the great Western boxing real quick. Styles influence each other, but it all depends on the individual.
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  16. #16
    Registered User MuslimBrahSwag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    Guys from Holland would go to Thailand and beat everyone also. It depends on the individual. It’s all about the individual.

    When some western old style kickboxer underestimated low kicks, Thai guy promptly educated him by making him unable to walk, and the fight is thus stopped. But then a Japanese or Western kickboxer goes to Thailand and Thais’ boxing wasn’t great, so the Thai gets KTFO by a boxing combination and learn his lesson about the great Western boxing real quick. Styles influence each other, but it all depends on the individual.
    Which guy from Holland went to Thailand and beat all of the thai's?? If you're talking about Ramon Dekkers, he was def a great fighter even by Muay Thai standards, but against the top competition in Thailand he was not elite.

    Even today Thai's are dominating though the Dutch have come a long way:

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  17. #17
    OP will never know cameintodissu's Avatar
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    As a fighter who regularly trains with a couple UFC fighters (one currently ranked top 15 in his division), a very highly ranked ONE FC fighter (ranked #2-3 in his division), and a ranked Bellator fighter... Everyone lifts weights. But none of them lift heavy like a powerlifting or bodybuilder.

    If you dont train often then yeah whatever lift as much as your hearts content. But most fighters realize the time and energy spent lifting heavy ass weights is much better used to train their sport.
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    Originally Posted by KingSWRV View Post
    oh I didn't realize that

    thanks man
    You are the definition of the dunning-kruger effect. Why do you even post on things you know nothing about. Go back to the powerlifting forum or something
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  19. #19
    A BODYBUILDING GOD KingSWRV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cameintodissu View Post
    As a fighter who regularly trains with a couple UFC fighters (one currently ranked top 15 in his division), a very highly ranked ONE FC fighter (ranked #2-3 in his division), and a ranked Bellator fighter... Everyone lifts weights. But none of them lift heavy like a powerlifting or bodybuilder.

    If you dont train often then yeah whatever lift as much as your hearts content. But most fighters realize the time and energy spent lifting heavy ass weights is much better used to train their sport.
    So you're saying they realized its much better to be weaker than your opponent...

    gotcha
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    Originally Posted by KingSWRV View Post
    So you're saying they realized its much better to be weaker than your opponent...

    gotcha
    I have a feeling you don’t even train, let alone fight. How do you know so much about the sport you don’t even compete in?

    Post your fight videos or at least sparring or training cuz you have 0 credibility with anything you say
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    Originally Posted by cameintodissu View Post
    I have a feeling you don’t even train, let alone fight. How do you know so much about the sport you don’t even compete in?

    Post your fight videos or at least sparring or training cuz you have 0 credibility with anything you say
    Right because I can't possibly have access to an MMA gym in my city nor study the game in any way
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    Yeah. That’s what I thought. Dunning-Kruger at its finest
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    Originally Posted by cameintodissu View Post
    I have a feeling you don’t even train, let alone fight. How do you know so much about the sport you don’t even compete in?

    Post your fight videos or at least sparring or training cuz you have 0 credibility with anything you say
    I've noticed what you posted in your last post myself.

    There was a pretty experienced fighter training with me, but I still have years of experience on him, and he was my height but he outweighed me by like 35 lbs of muscle minimum. We began grappling and not gonna lie I was like "fuk this guy is strong, hes gonna beat me" then literally 10 seconds later the guy gasses. I guess he didnt develop the proper breathing or something because at about the 30 second mark I just completely overpowered him despite him being much bigger than me.

    The only reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering if I should completely give up lifting weights (i really dont want to) or just stick to calisthenics and HIIT or 1/2 mile sprints like my coaches tell me.
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    Originally Posted by MuslimBrahSwag View Post
    I've noticed what you posted in your last post myself.

    There was a pretty experienced fighter training with me, but I still have years of experience on him, and he was my height but he outweighed me by like 35 lbs of muscle minimum. We began grappling and not gonna lie I was like "fuk this guy is strong, hes gonna beat me" then literally 10 seconds later the guy gasses. I guess he didnt develop the proper breathing or something because at about the 30 second mark I just completely overpowered him despite him being much bigger than me.

    The only reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering if I should completely give up lifting weights (i really dont want to) or just stick to calisthenics and HIIT or 1/2 mile sprints like my coaches tell me.
    Do whatever you want to do. Just don’t skip training to do it imo. I always make sure I get in my skill work first. And in my opinion that’s more than enough cardio for the day. The rest is lifting/calisthenics for me. Unless I have a fight then less lifting closer to the fight.
    Just don’t do too much volume if you lift weights. Occasional interval sprints are really fun too. Pretty taxing and keeps the weight down
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    WATCH: Jon Jones Showcases His Insane Strength in Latest Workout

    MAY 27, 2020

    https://www.essentiallysports.com/uf...atest-workout/
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    Originally Posted by MuslimBrahSwag View Post
    Is there any point to training strength after a certain level?

    For example, all of my brahs that I train with in the UFC have left completely or left a good deal of weight training due to injuries.

    One of them is a UFC lhw who was dominating his division until he got his injury and another is a bw who use to be seriously juicy but it seems like he doesnt even lift anymore.

    I'm not able to ask them rn bc I'm coming back from shoulder surgery, so i wanted to get misks opinions.

    I was thinking, come back, get bench to 2 plates and only go for reps after that. same with squat and dead, 4 plates, then only do 4 plates for reps.

    The idea and my own experience is that from unlucky punches that land wrong, weird positions in grappling, etc, all of this forms lots of stress that coupled with massive weight leads to injury way easier.

    Both my wrestling and Thai coach, my thai coach being a legend in Thailand, up there with Samart, and my coach, coming from Iran so I don't think those credentials even need to be challenged, have told me not to lift at all.

    I think there could be some middle ground though and you just have to listen to your body, really really carefully. What do yall think?
    How big are you?

    In all practicality if you are repping 2 plate bench / 3 plate squat / 4 plate dead then you will not be at an appreciable strength disadvantage. Hell, there are lots of very skilled wrestlers I train and roll with who I know I greatly outlift, but they feel remarkably strong and like they defy physics with how heavy they can feel with proper positioning and technique.

    The fact that all your coaches are telling you to lay off the weights is a good indicator that they feel your skills and technique are lacking, and that you would progress in your training more efficiently by adjusting your focus.
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    Originally Posted by akmerle View Post
    How big are you?

    In all practicality if you are repping 2 plate bench / 3 plate squat / 4 plate dead then you will not be at an appreciable strength disadvantage. Hell, there are lots of very skilled wrestlers I train and roll with who I know I greatly outlift, but they feel remarkably strong and like they defy physics with how heavy they can feel with proper positioning and technique.

    The fact that all your coaches are telling you to lay off the weights is a good indicator that they feel your skills and technique are lacking, and that you would progress in your training more efficiently by adjusting your focus.
    Def skills pay the bills. I will try to lift 2x/week but never give up training for lifting. Thanks for the reply!
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    I only train hobbyish, but I found this video rather informative:

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    It depends on where you are at and where you have identified your areas of improvement physically. Technical skills are always number one but strength training is more than just how much you lift. Getting stuck in the "powerlifting" 1RM mindset will only hold you back. High-velocity strength training is often neglected in many athletes training and should have a stronger emphasis especially within combat sports.
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    Originally Posted by I3igAl View Post
    I only train hobbyish, but I found this video rather informative:

    Pretty good video so far but I had to stop to note that, powerlifting variety doesn't just give you maximal strength it also gives you explosive, iso and endurance.

    Furthermore it also opens the door for rounding out the power. For example it lets you lift heavier in more focused exercises as opposed to if one skipped powerlifting.

    Edit: nm this guy is all over the place. I think its his bloat that throws him off track since hes a bloat lifter not an athlete body type who happens to powerlift.
    Last edited by KingSWRV; 11-22-2020 at 09:25 AM.
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