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    How come its so rare to find games with a good A.I. now a days?

    title? I thought the A.I. in games is the one that would have evolved. A lot of times when you increase the difficulty on the game the enemies just get stronger not necessarily smarter...
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    Registered User dcbone30's Avatar
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    What are you looking for exactly and specific examples of your gripes? I feel like enemy AI is in general predictable in most games, so if you are looking for a dynamic experience just play multiplayer games.
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    I heard Alien: Isolation AI is pretty whack
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    Alien Isolations AI for the Xeno is the best AI I've seen in a game. I saw a video a while back explaining how they made the AI to make the xeno an independent entity. It's always searching the map. It doesn't just despawn. It's just in another room or another section of the map. If you hear it in the ducts above the map in a random room, it's actually there. It uses sight and sound to actively search for humans. It also learns from the player and adapts if they tend to do the same chit. It searches in ducts and under tables if that's your go to, it learns to work around flamethrowers if you overuse that to fight it off, (etc...). On top of all that, it's quicker than you so you cant outrun it and it is always a one hit kill if it gets its hands on you. Insane AI and it's legit what I expected from next gen back when the XO and PS4 were launching. Devs just don't put that kind of effort in. No matter how many playthroughs I've had, that thing has never gotten predictable. I've never gotten comfortable with it.

    Meanwhile, a AAA dev like Capcom makes Mr. X, who comes off straight up retarded when compared to the Xeno. He's insanely easy to exploit, unlike the Xeno.
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    Allied Allies Alliance VTheKing's Avatar
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    I think there's a couple of reasons.

    The trend in gaming as of late has been to feature open worlds rather than compact levels. It's a lot harder to program good AI when the variables surrounding NPCs are exponentially higher and players expect to approach situations in many different ways. So to speak, it's one thing to program the AI for a specific soldier to defend an exact spot. Another one is to program AI such that all soldiers throughout the world can defend whatever grounds they're standing on. And the challenge is not making the AI "smart" - it needs to be PERCEIVED as smart. Because it's really easy to program NPCs to minimax on the spot and assrape the player, but no one will want to play a game where NPCs have an "unfair" AI.

    Which leads to the next point - nowadays, many people aren't even playing games to go up against AI, but rather against each other. Online play is a bigger and bigger part of game development, which squeezes out dev time for finessing AI for single player or multiplayer that involves dealing with NPCs.

    Good AI in modern games can also eat CPUs, which haven't progressed as much as GPUs even though the environments people play in are bigger and more varied than ever. So even if devs put effort in AI development they will also need to optimize it for performance. This is where even good singe players games won't try too hard at refining the AI, as it's much easier and safer to work on other aspects of the game and finetune difficulty through game design.
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    Honestly game designed really peaked in the seventh generation (PS3 360 era). Been nothing but "OMG look at these slightly better graphics" ever since.
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    To add to some already great points in here, I think ever since patches have made it into the console world it has become a bigger and bigger crutch for developers. They will say they plan on working on issues with the game and tweaking this and that as an excuse for putting out a lazily developed game
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    Originally Posted by dcbone30 View Post
    What are you looking for exactly and specific examples of your gripes? I feel like enemy AI is in general predictable in most games, so if you are looking for a dynamic experience just play multiplayer games.
    It just takes me out of the game at times and it ruins the experience. Like in Most Assassin's Creed games where the guy just stands in the same places for 2/3 minutes. It's more bad in Assassin's Creed compared to most games. I was playing Days Gone the other day and a guy spotted me and he didn't even alert any of the other guys that he saw me. He basically ran all the way from his position abandoning all logic to try to hit me while I headshotted him.

    At least in The Last of Us Part 2 which from what I can recall the A.I. was a bit better. They would flank you and sneak up behind you if you weren't paying attention. They would also call out to each other while saying each others names. It just made the experience feel more real and immersive.


    It just feels like most A.I. in games are completely brain dead and makes the gaming experience too easy. I know you can change the difficulty but even when you do that they aren't getting smarter just stronger. I just feel like having a better A.I. should be more second nature and I'm not even asking for some intelligent A.I. that completely out smarts you but just something that just keeps you on your feet.
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    High Test Miscer bongowongo's Avatar
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    Yeah, hardly any changes in AI from anything I recall .... Like the other poster said, from what I hear and read, only Alien Isolation was the game that featured a pretty smart and cool AI. Most games would rather market 4k res and graphics over anything of that sort.




    TLOU 2 was ok, but even their AI was super hyped up ... The whole enemies calling each other by name making a difference in gameplay was a crock of chit and nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Most AI is just reactive to the player because you had smart AI that would just turn off players.


    The only game that I've played recently where I've been impressed by the AI was RDR 2, a lot of potential in that one and future iterations of GTA and RDR.
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    Breaker of Gains JStrez's Avatar
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    A Fallout/Elder Scrolls game with a legitimate AI would probably be good. Everything gets so repetitive that you get tired of it. Having a legit AI would probably push that game to the next level.

    GTA and RDR is pretty good too, but when I call my horse and it runs over/kills 5 people in the process and I get a massive bounty on my head, that's pretty ass imo.
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    Originally Posted by VTheKing View Post
    Good AI in modern games can also eat CPUs, which haven't progressed as much as GPUs even though the environments people play in are bigger and more varied than ever. So even if devs put effort in AI development they will also need to optimize it for performance. This is where even good singe players games won't try too hard at refining the AI, as it's much easier and safer to work on other aspects of the game and finetune difficulty through game design.
    Glad you mentioned this because it's always worth bringing up how this was a problem that we saw all the way back in 2014 with Assassin's Creed Unity:

    "Technically we're CPU-bound, he [Pontbriand] said. "The GPUs are really powerful, obviously the graphics look pretty good, but it's the CPU [that] has to process the AI, the number of NPCs we have on screen, all these systems running in parallel.

    "We were quickly bottlenecked by that and it was a bit frustrating, because we thought that this was going to be a tenfold improvement over everything AI-wise, and we realised it was going to be pretty hard. It's not the number of polygons that affect the framerate. We could be running at 100fps if it was just graphics, but because of AI, we're still limited to 30 frames per second."


    We might start to see more advances now that the next gen consoles are equipped with far more capable CPUs to process the AI side of the equation.

    Originally Posted by JStrez View Post
    A Fallout/Elder Scrolls game with a legitimate AI would probably be good. Everything gets so repetitive that you get tired of it. Having a legit AI would probably push that game to the next level.

    GTA and RDR is pretty good too, but when I call my horse and it runs over/kills 5 people in the process and I get a massive bounty on my head, that's pretty ass imo.
    Related to Fallout and Elder Scrolls specifically is how genuinely good AI actually leads to exponential new variables that need new parameters to keep things in check lest the game breaks itself. TES: Oblivion originally had highly dynamic "Radiant AI" that had to be toned down because it would constantly cause all kinds of problems, e.g.:

    In one Dark Brotherhood quest, you can meet up with this shady merchant who sells skooma. During testing, the NPC would be dead when the player got to him. Why? NPCs from the local skooma den were trying to get their fix, didn't have any skooma, and were killing the merchant to get it!
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    Originally Posted by bongowongo View Post
    Yeah, hardly any changes in AI from anything I recall .... Like the other poster said, from what I hear and read, only Alien Isolation was the game that featured a pretty smart and cool AI. Most games would rather market 4k res and graphics over anything of that sort.




    TLOU 2 was ok, but even their AI was super hyped up ... The whole enemies calling each other by name making a difference in gameplay was a crock of chit and nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Most AI is just reactive to the player because you had smart AI that would just turn off players.


    The only game that I've played recently where I've been impressed by the AI was RDR 2, a lot of potential in that one and future iterations of GTA and RDR.
    Enemies calling out names could interesting in a role playing game or one with branching possibilities, but it's a total waste for a completely linear game.

    If anything, a game like RDR where the player's potential notoriety gets personal based on past actions could provide for some insane, emergent encounters.
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    Originally Posted by nkiritsis13 View Post
    Glad you mentioned this because it's always worth bringing up how this was a problem that we saw all the way back in 2014 with Assassin's Creed Unity:

    "Technically we're CPU-bound, he [Pontbriand] said. "The GPUs are really powerful, obviously the graphics look pretty good, but it's the CPU [that] has to process the AI, the number of NPCs we have on screen, all these systems running in parallel.

    "We were quickly bottlenecked by that and it was a bit frustrating, because we thought that this was going to be a tenfold improvement over everything AI-wise, and we realised it was going to be pretty hard. It's not the number of polygons that affect the framerate. We could be running at 100fps if it was just graphics, but because of AI, we're still limited to 30 frames per second."


    We might start to see more advances now that the next gen consoles are equipped with far more capable CPUs to process the AI side of the equation.


    Related to Fallout and Elder Scrolls specifically is how genuinely good AI actually leads to exponential new variables that need new parameters to keep things in check lest the game breaks itself. TES: Oblivion originally had highly dynamic "Radiant AI" that had to be toned down because it would constantly cause all kinds of problems, e.g.:

    In one Dark Brotherhood quest, you can meet up with this shady merchant who sells skooma. During testing, the NPC would be dead when the player got to him. Why? NPCs from the local skooma den were trying to get their fix, didn't have any skooma, and were killing the merchant to get it!
    [/B]




    Enemies calling out names could interesting in a role playing game or one with branching possibilities, but it's a total waste for a completely linear game.

    If anything, a game like RDR where the player's potential notoriety gets personal based on past actions could provide for some insane, emergent encounters.



    You know which game could get a good dose of higher tiered AI ..... The shadow of mordor Nemesis system ... so many cool possibilities to play around with and increase the Ai in that game.
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    Registered User Manglet's Avatar
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    Division 2 has very good adaptive enemy AI, even on the normal difficulty. Enemies flank you constantly, flush you out of cover with explosives, use turrets, etc. Keeps you on your toes.
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    Arma's AI is the best, turn up the difficulty and if you get headshotted from 600 yards with iron sights


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    I think it is just too much work and companies rather focus on graphics and world these days rather than details because it just works. These days it is all about extending the length of the game and graphics.

    Alien isolation had good AI but you have to realize it is 1 alien AI. That is basically what the game is about.

    Now imagine GTA, any open world game. There's thousands of NPCs. It would take ages to program every one of those to have good AI. Then you have to probably worry about the size and compressing everything etc...

    Like RDR2 was so detailed and they probably spent lots of time on that game but people still complain about it.

    Feel like it is just a big risk of wasted time/profit for companies.
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    Agree with some posters above. Main reason is bottleneck on CPU, second reason is low priority compared to other stuff like graphics.

    A third reason not mentioned is that a realistic AI makes harder to balance difficulty and user experience.
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