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    Is my push/pull solid?

    Hi everyone! First time here. I created a push/pull/legs routine based on coolcicada’s and made my own personal adjustments based on his and what I’ve seen from others on here. Just would like some feedback! I will be doing it twice a week. Legs are solid, I just need feedback on push/pull. Cheers!

    Push day 1
    BB bench press 4 sets of 5
    Overhead shoulder press 3 sets of 8-10
    Incline DB bench press 3 sets of 8-10
    DB pullover 3 sets of 10 reps
    Tricep rope pressdowns 3 sets of 8-10
    Overhead tricep ext 3 sets of 8-10
    Lateral raise 3-4 sets of 12-15
    Should finisher

    Pull Day 1
    Deadlift 4 sets of 5
    Chest support T bar row 3 sets of 8
    Lat pulldown 3 sets of 8-10
    DB one arm row 3 sets of 8-10
    Reverse fly 3-4 sets of 12-15
    BB curl 3 sets of 8-10
    Incline curls 3 sets of 8-10
    Shrugs 3 sets of 10

    Push day 2
    DB shoulder press 3 sets of 5-6
    DB Bench press 3 sets of 10
    Chest flys 3 sets of 15
    V bar tricep pressdown 3 sets of 8-10
    Lying lateral raise 3-4 sets of 10-12

    Pull Day 2
    Close grip pull downs 3 sets of 8-10
    Seated chest supported row (vert) 3 sets of 8-10
    Reverse flys 3-4 sets of 12-15
    Preacher curls 3 sets of 8-10
    Shrugs 3 sets of 10

    So as you can see the first of each day is a slightly heavier volume, while the second part in the week is a little lighter. Any feedback would be appreciated!!
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  2. #2
    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    Legs are solid, I just need feedback on push/pull.
    We hear that a lot. If you can figure out legs, you should be able to do the same for the rest.
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

    Formerly LactoseTolerant. I'm not very imaginative.
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  3. #3
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    First time here.
    We hear this a lot too.
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    Registered User steven318's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    We hear that a lot. If you can figure out legs, you should be able to do the same for the rest.
    So routine looks solid? No overtraining?
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    Registered User steven318's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    We hear this a lot too.
    Lool i can imagine!! How does the routine look? Am doing too much for 2x week??
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    So routine looks solid? No overtraining?
    Overtraining is systemic and the cause is multifactorial. You haven't given nearly enough information.
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

    Formerly LactoseTolerant. I'm not very imaginative.
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    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    Lool i can imagine!! How does the routine look? Am doing too much for 2x week??
    You’re asking two diff Qs above.

    It’s unlikely to be overtraining, esp since you don’t really do legs.

    It could very well be more volume than would be productive and necessary for growth and progression, but don’t know anything about you can’t say for sure.
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    Registered User steven318's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    You’re asking two diff Qs above.

    It’s unlikely to be overtraining, esp since you don’t really do legs.

    It could very well be more volume than would be productive and necessary for growth and progression, but don’t know anything about you can’t say for sure.
    I do legs but I don’t need any adjustments with that, but I do need advice with my push/pull. Legs are the usual squats 4x5, leg extensions 3x15, leg curls 3x15, lunges 3x15. I’m 5’7, 150 pounds 26 yrs
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    Registered User steven318's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Overtraining is systemic and the cause is multifactorial. You haven't given nearly enough information.
    Well, what information do you need?
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    Registered User George2100's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    Well, what information do you need?
    Brah. No one else is going to be able to tell if you’re overtraining. Only YOU can decide that. Different people can handle different amounts of work.
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    Registered User steven318's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by George2100 View Post
    Brah. No one else is going to be able to tell if you’re overtraining. Only YOU can decide that. Different people can handle different amounts of work.
    Before I post it, I saw many people on here criticizing peoples routines for having too much volume. That’s basically the question I’m trying to ask here. For someone with around a year of lifting experience with my size, I just want to know if this would be over training in general.
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    Before I post it, I saw many people on here criticizing peoples routines for having too much volume. That’s basically the question I’m trying to ask here. For someone with around a year of lifting experience with my size, I just want to know if this would be over training in general.
    I applaud you on your extensive research for someone who is here for the very first time. As I said above, overtraining is something different than what you mean - it has specific symptoms.

    With all you read, you still came up with this volume so you might as well do it and see how it goes.
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    Well, what information do you need?
    Training, sleep, diet logs.
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

    Formerly LactoseTolerant. I'm not very imaginative.
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    Before I post it, I saw many people on here criticizing peoples routines for having too much volume. That’s basically the question I’m trying to ask here. For someone with around a year of lifting experience with my size, I just want to know if this would be over training in general.
    If you can still add weight to the bar weekly you may actually be undertraining. If that's the case a 3 day full body novice program (All pro's/Fierce5) will give you much faster results since you'll be training each muscle group more often. I see so many people running PPL programs who have not exhausted their novice gains. You want the program that will give you the fastest progress possible with the least amount of volume. I don't like PPL for someone with about a year of training and honestly I don't even like it for advanced lifters. The other thing is that "a year of lifting" could mean that you did everything right and you're benching 225 and squatting 315 for reps. Or it could mean that you just go to the gym and pump and fluff through the workouts and don't make much progress. The more information you provide the better.
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    Registered User steven318's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    If you can still add weight to the bar weekly you may actually be undertraining. If that's the case a 3 day full body novice program (All pro's/Fierce5) will give you much faster results since you'll be training each muscle group more often. I see so many people running PPL programs who have not exhausted their novice gains. You want the program that will give you the fastest progress possible with the least amount of volume. I don't like PPL for someone with about a year of training and honestly I don't even like it for advanced lifters. The other thing is that "a year of lifting" could mean that you did everything right and you're benching 225 and squatting 315 for reps. Or it could mean that you just go to the gym and pump and fluff through the workouts and don't make much progress. The more information you provide the better.
    I was struggling with lower back issues for the longest so my squat may be more in that noobie stage, but I definitely can’t add more to the upper body per week. Squat MAY add weight per week, but not always.

    Only reason I can add weight to the bar is I primarily did DB bench press so now I use the bar and since its a new movement, its lower weight but I’m moving up. But I don’t consider myself a novice.

    My squat is as low, around 220 when last healht before covid. I was getting better each week and healthier. Benching might have been able to be higher but again I used DB mostly and couldn’t go up much.

    I was doing very well but covid hit lol so now just trying to start back up injury free! I feel like a newbie again lol I may do that kind of routine you suggested, although I am hitting muscles every 3 days with PPL, lots of options makes this so difficult
    Last edited by steven318; 10-23-2020 at 06:51 PM.
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    Registered User steven318's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Training, sleep, diet logs.
    Diet flawless, macros on point sleep 6-7 hours a night, train intense and properly
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    Diet flawless, macros on point sleep 6-7 hours a night, train intense and properly
    ....?
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

    Formerly LactoseTolerant. I'm not very imaginative.
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    I was struggling with lower back issues for the longest so my squat may be more in that noobie stage, but I definitely can’t add more to the upper body per week. Squat MAY add weight per week, but not always.

    Only reason I can add weight to the bar is I primarily did DB bench press so now I use the bar and since its a new movement, its lower weight but I’m moving up. But I don’t consider myself a novice.

    My squat is as low, around 220 when last healht before covid. I was getting better each week and healthier. Benching might have been able to be higher but again I used DB mostly and couldn’t go up much.

    I was doing very well but covid hit lol so now just trying to start back up injury free! I feel like a newbie again lol I may do that kind of routine you suggested, although I am hitting muscles every 3 days with PPL, lots of options makes this so difficult
    If you’re even early intermediate you could do fierce 5 u/l or Lyle McDonald’s GBR. A 6 day PPL is overkill for 99 percent of natural lifters imo. The extra rest days don’t seem like much but they add up and that’s when the gains are made.
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    6-7 hours isn't near enough sleep for training 6 days a week.
    Current.................365 / getting / there.........185 lbs
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    Originally Posted by jademonkey View Post
    6-7 hours isn't near enough sleep for training 6 days a week.
    ^^^
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    Originally Posted by jademonkey View Post
    6-7 hours isn't near enough sleep for training 6 days a week.
    That’s one hour away from 8, how is that not enough lol
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    If you’re even early intermediate you could do fierce 5 u/l or Lyle McDonald’s GBR. A 6 day PPL is overkill for 99 percent of natural lifters imo. The extra rest days don’t seem like much but they add up and that’s when the gains are made.
    I’m not a fan of the lower volume and extra rest days but I will definitely check it out!
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    That’s one hour away from 8, how is that not enough lol
    I need to drive from Point A to Point B. It will take 8 gallons of gas to do that. I only have 7 gallons in the tank.
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    I need to drive from Point A to Point B. It will take 8 gallons of gas to do that. I only have 7 gallons in the tank.
    There are tons of variables. What if you wake up after 6.5 hours to take a piss and can’t fall back asleep? What if I wake up after 7 hours and can’t go back to sleep? It’s not guaranteed to get exactly 8 hours every single night. It’s NEVER hurt my training intensity.

    I would go to the gym at 2am after bartending 10 hours and have a 1.5 hour training session lifting as heavy as I did on an off work day.

    You guys forget people have a life to live. Can’t always be getting exactly 8 hours of sleep. I think while this forum is an excellent source of info, there are too many gatekeepers that want to stick to the script without flexibility.

    Unless I’m competing for a BB competition, I don’t need exactly 8 hours every night as I’ve seen solid progress in a year of lifting without a single night of 8 hours rest lol. Some days I lifted on 5 hours and felt the same ������‍♂️
    Last edited by steven318; 10-24-2020 at 08:31 AM.
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    There are tons of variables. What if you wake up after 6.5 hours to take a piss and can’t fall back asleep? What if I wake up after 7 hours and can’t go back to sleep? It’s not guaranteed to get exactly 8 hours every single night. It’s NEVER hurt my training intensity.

    I would go to the gym at 2am after bartending 10 hours and have a 1.5 hour training session lifting as heavy as I did on an off work day.
    You have a valid point. But back to my example, what if there was a strong headwind or tailwind? A good tailwind may allow you to make the journey with 7 gallons, but you may not make it with 8 gallons and a headwind.

    Since you serve alcohol, you might be interested about this experiment I did with 10% ethanol gasoline vs pure gasoline. I was taking a 150 mile trip in my truck. Started with a full tank of 10% ethanol gas and tracked my miles per gallon. Got around 21 mpg. On the way home I filled up with pure gasoline, no ethanol. Go around 23 mpg on the way home. Ethanol gas is cheaper, but it gets less fuel economy. Pure gas costs more, but gets better mileage. The cost differential for the amount of gas consumed was 50 cents in favor of ethanol. But I had a 30 mph tailwind with the ethanol, so the results are not valid.
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    You have a valid point. But back to my example, what if there was a strong headwind or tailwind? A good tailwind may allow you to make the journey with 7 gallons, but you may not make it with 8 gallons and a headwind.

    Since you serve alcohol, you might be interested about this experiment I did with 10% ethanol gasoline vs pure gasoline. I was taking a 150 mile trip in my truck. Started with a full tank of 10% ethanol gas and tracked my miles per gallon. Got around 21 mpg. On the way home I filled up with pure gasoline, no ethanol. Go around 23 mpg on the way home. Ethanol gas is cheaper, but it gets less fuel economy. Pure gas costs more, but gets better mileage. The cost differential for the amount of gas consumed was 50 cents in favor of ethanol. But I had a 30 mph tailwind with the ethanol, so the results are not valid.
    Yeah I totally understand what you’re saying and I definitely think you’re valid. I just think it differs.

    Just like people above were saying over training is different and certain people can handle certain loads better, it’s also the same for rest.

    It’s actually pretty hypocritical of them to tell me well over training is based on a person by person basis but then tell me I need eight hours of sleep every single night.

    So far in other forums and this one I definitely see a lot of help being given out but I also sometimes see a lot of nonsense that just makes no sense whatsoever.

    I don’t think these people live in the real world where you are sometimes just not able to get eight hours of rest every single night and you sometimes have to bust your ass at work and still work out in the gym.

    My diet has been very consistent and my training as well. For them to say I need eight hours of sleep when I live in the real world is kind of ridiculous.

    The only reason I’ve ever had injuries had nothing to do with me not resting enough whatsoever, sometimes I just had to get to work and I couldn’t do a proper warm-up routine and would squat very heavy right off the bat
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    Yeah I totally understand what you’re saying and I definitely think you’re valid. I just think it differs.

    Just like people above were saying over training is different and certain people can handle certain loads better, it’s also the same for rest.

    It’s actually pretty hypocritical of them to tell me well over training is based on a person by person basis but then tell me I need eight hours of sleep every single night.

    So far in other forums and this one I definitely see a lot of help being given out but I also sometimes see a lot of nonsense that just makes no sense whatsoever.

    I don’t think these people live in the real world where you are sometimes just not able to get eight hours of rest every single night and you sometimes have to bust your ass at work and still work out in the gym.

    My diet has been very consistent and my training as well. For them to say I need eight hours of sleep when I live in the real world is kind of ridiculous.

    The only reason I’ve ever had injuries had nothing to do with me not resting enough whatsoever, sometimes I just had to get to work and I couldn’t do a proper warm-up routine and would squat very heavy right off the bat
    Only 2 people above commented on your sleep not being enough. You ignore that overtraining is not actually what you think it is. Regardless, you keep saying you do everything perfectly so why did you even post if you don’t need advice and this forum (which you supposedly are visiting for the very first time) is full of hypocrisy and nonsense)?

    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    Diet flawless, macros on point sleep 6-7 hours a night, train intense and properly
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Only 2 people above commented on your sleep not being enough. You ignore that overtraining is not actually what you think it is. Regardless, you keep saying you do everything perfectly so why did you even post if you don’t need advice and this forum (which you supposedly are visiting for the very first time) is full of hypocrisy and nonsense)?
    You keep insisting on making a sarcastic remark that it’s my first time here as if you invented this website and it would be some insult to you if this was not my first time.

    The fact that you only focused on that shows what type of person you are and that you’re genuinely not here to help people first and foremost.

    Now with that out of the way, I came here because I am no expert just like you are not an expert and like most people here are not experts. Just people who bodybuilding for fun that post their results. So I’m here just looking for different opinions and the first two comments I get have literally nothing to do with the question I’m asking.

    If your first comment isn’t going to offer any help or advice, why even bother commenting at all?

    And trust me this formum is definitely full of a lot of nonsense and only took me one day of checking it out to notice that. Most people would rather critique the way someone goes about doing something versus genuinely just trying to help them improve their routine.

    I literally saw an entire thread with tons of pages were people were just trash talking the original poster instead of just genuinely trying to help him and then that Spawned a whole separate conversation that had nothing to do with the formum whatsoever. If that’s not nonsense and I don’t know what is.
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    I’m not a fan of the lower volume and extra rest days but I will definitely check it out!
    The thing is that once the weights get heavy on those programs you won’t be able to add much more volume. You could also do some cardio on the off days. Just a thought. If you’re set on PPL google programming balance made easy and read through it. Good luck.
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    Originally Posted by steven318 View Post
    Hi everyone! First time here. I created a push/pull/legs routine based on coolcicada’s and made my own personal adjustments based on his and what I’ve seen from others on here. Just would like some feedback!
    Your push and pull volume seems to be about the same (I'm not counting arms. Just chest/shoulders and back).

    The general consensus is that total pull volume needs to be more than push volume. I'm no expert, just repeating what I've heard.
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