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    Registered User Jtbny's Avatar
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    Active market traders

    Was wondering if we had any active market traders here. I'm sure most have passive accounts (I do too) but any day, swing, or just active traders?

    Myself - I day/swing trade stocks and options. Options are my main strategy because you can make money as a bear or bull. I do this as a hobby, mainly, but shoot for a steady $200-300 a week profit and am pretty consistent.

    Anyone else play the market? Thought maybe we can discuss strategies rather than actual tickers or investment advise just to be safe (unless MODS say we can). Option trading opens up a new world of possibilities with so many ways to play them.

    Anyone else?
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    Death Metal Madman StinnerOzz's Avatar
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    Yes

    You can make money with either sentiment on common stock, ETFs, etc. as well though, not just with options. If you can consistantly make $$, why not increase your cost basis per trade and earn more?
    Last edited by StinnerOzz; 05-06-2020 at 07:31 AM.
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  3. #3
    Registered User Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StinnerOzz View Post
    Yes

    You can make money with either sentiment on common stock, ETFs, etc. as well though, not just with options. If you can consistantly make $$, why not increase your cost basis per trade and earn more?
    Generally I run the wheel with options and deposit all premiums collected into a depository stock (I use Apple). Sometimes I'll use a credit or debt spread but not every week. I'm a small time active investor and only keep $30k in the account so I can day trade pulling out every $5k I make above that. We are maxed out on 401k and IRA every year so this is just a hobby I've been learning about. Defiantly have a lot to learn but Ive been pretty steady for a year on profits.
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    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Does your broker not allow short selling?

    I have an IBKR margin account. I got short selling ability by default but had to apply for options trading.

    I don't trade very often - I just use ETFs for long term macroeconomic trends.

    I've tried intraday trading but it's too distracting. There is no way I can do my work and that at the same time.
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    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    I don't trade stocks, but I am a former licensed and registered Commodity Trading Adviser and sometimes I trade commodities, but during times like now. Way too volatile. But, it was more volatile after 9/11. Since 9/11 there was a substantial increase in total market volatility and traders ad institutions started trading more cautiously. During these times, basic economic principles don't apply and I don't gamble.

    That is just how I see things for me. JT, if you are making a profit on the regular, good for you.
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  6. #6
    Registered User Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    Does your broker not allow short selling?

    I have an IBKR margin account. I got short selling ability by default but had to apply for options trading.

    I don't trade very often - I just use ETFs for long term macroeconomic trends.

    I've tried intraday trading but it's too distracting. There is no way I can do my work and that at the same time.
    They might allow it but I've never looked into it. Options give me the same hedge.

    I sometimes swing trade ETFs like SPY and SQQQ but never hold them long term. I like individual companies. Currently long term holding Ally and AMD and I run the wheel on those two regularly. Microsoft and Visa too.

    Day trading can be a PIA. If you day trade an ETF that offers 3x market leverage you can profit pretty regular but it has to be monitored unless you set limits.
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  7. #7
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    Using spreads is great if you know how to work them. I myself have yet to really grasp putting the theory to action, though I have acquaintances who are great w/them. All in all, growing an account and increasing cost basis is the way to REALLY grow your account. Lots of ways to skin a cat or play the idea, but assume you use $1K of your account to make your $500 weekly. Save 1 week of profits, add it to your trades, and then you'll make that much more. After a couple weeks, save another $500 to add to your basis and pocket the rest, then repeat.

    Compound interest, I do it in my Roth account. I can't even contribute to a Roth because I phase out 100%, so I have to resort to backdoors. I do options in my actual trading account though, but just directionals.
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    Registered User Cantplankwell's Avatar
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    I have traded for years through my discount brokerage account at my bank.

    We started getting out of the market over 18 months ago, and was almost completely out by last fall. Its 80% in cash.....both US and CAD. We only have one stock left...MCD and some is in a very conservative bond fund...which has helds its own. I just follow basic guidelines for trading, mostly. My number one rule is I dont buy what I dont understand...for example: commodities, forex, tech, start ups.. etc. Further I only buy stocks that provide regular dividends, and that dont rely on a single product (the opposite of that would be things like PG..JNJ). I prefer companies that produce the every day items of living...stuff you cant do without, and their means of getting to market. I am not a day trader or speculator...All the stocks I have had were held for at least 3 years, some for as long as 12-13 years.

    Now the fun starts. I would like to be in a position to not work if I dont want to after say 60, so fundamentaly I dont believe I have the leeway to take risks anymore. Our main discussions right now are around what to do with our USD because most of that was accumulated by way of buying stocks in USD when the CAD had a +25% advantage, many years ago. Now its completely the other way around...and we got a big boost in recent years just because of that inversion...do we sell our USD cash now? Or stay with buying US with it.

    I am also weighing out going with ETFs this time around on broad swaths of the economy which sooner or later will rebound. I am staying out for the time being, as I believe we probably did hit the bottom in March, but I feel we are going to test new higher bottoms and yoyo for at least another year. I drive around town and there are so many new cars on the road and in parking lots, everybody I know has new stuff...and have taken amazing vacations, have upgraded to a new house etc... we are also nearing the apex of a record building boom with stratoshperic prices and indicators are that the average family is just basically tapped out. The current covid/recession has been a one two punch...I think things will continue to be a poor environment for investing unless you are really smart and can find opportunties in small places, or you are VERY long term...like 15-20 years. I dont fall in either of those two camps. I am all ears for ideas.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    I don't trade stocks, but I am a former licensed and registered Commodity Trading Adviser and sometimes I trade commodities, but during times like now. Way too volatile. But, it was more volatile after 9/11. Since 9/11 there was a substantial increase in total market volatility and traders ad institutions started trading more cautiously. During these times, basic economic principles don't apply and I don't gamble.

    That is just how I see things for me. JT, if you are making a profit on the regular, good for you.
    Yup the market has been crazy but option spreads greatly limit any losses. I've been pretty steady for a year even through all the craziness. Capping losses with credit/debt spreads really has been a great savior. Thanks for the input!

    Originally Posted by StinnerOzz View Post
    Using spreads is great if you know how to work them. I myself have yet to really grasp putting the theory to action, though I have acquaintances who are great w/them. All in all, growing an account and increasing cost basis is the way to REALLY grow your account. Lots of ways to skin a cat or play the idea, but assume you use $1K of your account to make your $500 weekly. Save 1 week of profits, add it to your trades, and then you'll make that much more. After a couple weeks, save another $500 to add to your basis and pocket the rest, then repeat.

    Compound interest, I do it in my Roth account. I can't even contribute to a Roth because I phase out 100%, so I have to resort to backdoors. I do options in my actual trading account though, but just directionals.
    I kind of do that now with a depository stock where I dump all the premiums I collect from selling calls/puts. I'm no expert when it comes to options but a solid intermediate which is plenty to make small consistent gains. Because we max out all our accounts I have leeway with this account to play around a little more. I 100% in the compound interest. Have $30k in Cds I continue to roll and even at an average of 1.9% interest it adds up plus 401k and IRA's.

    Originally Posted by Cantplankwell View Post
    I have traded for years through my discount brokerage account at my bank.

    We started getting out of the market over 18 months ago, and was almost completely out by last fall. Its 80% in cash.....both US and CAD. We only have one stock left...MCD and some is in a very conservative bond fund...which has helds its own. I just follow basic guidelines for trading, mostly. My number one rule is I dont buy what I dont understand...for example: commodities, forex, tech, start ups.. etc. Further I only buy stocks that provide regular dividends, and that dont rely on a single product (the opposite of that would be things like PG..JNJ). I prefer companies that produce the every day items of living...stuff you cant do without, and their means of getting to market. I am not a day trader or speculator...All the stocks I have had were held for at least 3 years, some for as long as 12-13 years.

    Now the fun starts. I would like to be in a position to not work if I dont want to after say 60, so fundamentaly I dont believe I have the leeway to take risks anymore. Our main discussions right now are around what to do with our USD because most of that was accumulated by way of buying stocks in USD when the CAD had a +25% advantage, many years ago. Now its completely the other way around...and we got a big boost in recent years just because of that inversion...do we sell our USD cash now? Or stay with buying US with it.

    I am also weighing out going with ETFs this time around on broad swaths of the economy which sooner or later will rebound. I am staying out for the time being, as I believe we probably did hit the bottom in March, but I feel we are going to test new higher bottoms and yoyo for at least another year. I drive around town and there are so many new cars on the road and in parking lots, everybody I know has new stuff...and have taken amazing vacations, have upgraded to a new house etc... we are also nearing the apex of a record building boom with stratoshperic prices and indicators are that the average family is just basically tapped out. The current covid/recession has been a one two punch...I think things will continue to be a poor environment for investing unless you are really smart and can find opportunties in small places, or you are VERY long term...like 15-20 years. I dont fall in either of those two camps. I am all ears for ideas.
    I've been getting more and more into running option wheels with dividend stocks myself. For example I was assigned 200 shares of Ally Financial that I sold puts on. I own it for a pretty great price and sell calls against those shares now. I sell much longer dated calls than I usually do ( I sell weeklies with Microsoft,Visa,McD) with the hopes of not having my shares called away so I can collect the premium as well as the div. They paid .019 ps for Q1 and for a stock that is so cheap that's great. I do have to start paying more attention to dividends so thanks for the reminder.

    As for the market now options let me profit in both directions. Hasnt really phased me except for the stocks I hold are down some but the premiuim I've collected have more than offset that, plus I continue to cost average down.
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    Any thoughts on the airlines? I've been watching a few (DAL, LUV, JBLU as well as the ETF JETS) but just don't think we've seen the bottom yet. Doing some research DAL seems to be well positioned to survive this mess but I worry about a GM type of bailout where share holders get wiped out.
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    Originally Posted by Cantplankwell View Post



    do we sell our USD cash now? Or stay with buying US with it.
    Some have been calling for a 60 cent loonie over the past while, but the loonie has resisted. Recently that talk has come up again, and I have $62K in a U.S. savings account. I have been looking for the right moment to convert. I'm not praying for a 60 cent loonie, well at least not for more than a quarter. If a 60 cent loonie were to happen, I would convert all my U.S. stocks to cash .... primarily because the fundamentals are there for the loonie to outpace the U.S. dollar (given Covid turmoil).

    but then again, I'm in the market for early 60's Mopar so not having to convert to U.S.is a bonus
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    Any thoughts on the airlines? I've been watching a few (DAL, LUV, JBLU as well as the ETF JETS) but just don't think we've seen the bottom yet. Doing some research DAL seems to be well positioned to survive this mess but I worry about a GM type of bailout where share holders get wiped out.
    Warren Buffet dumped his major airline stocks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...after-covid-19
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Warren Buffet dumped his major airline stocks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...after-covid-19
    I used to play around with high volatility stocks but I don’t enjoy it. Made some money but don’t like the added stress so I’m heavily invested long term in boring old index based mutual funds. That said I was just thinking about Boeing, it’s cheap and going forward people will still fly, but it might become the norm to not pack passengers in like cattle so perhaps there could be a substantial upside to Boeing in 5 years or so. I think I’ll leave the day trading to you guys. I have a system that has been working well without too much effort or ulcers lol.
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    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    I used to play around with high volatility stocks but I don’t enjoy it. Made some money but don’t like the added stress so I’m heavily invested long term in boring old index based mutual funds. That said I was just thinking about Boeing, it’s cheap and going forward people will still fly, but it might become the norm to not pack passengers in like cattle so perhaps there could be a substantial upside to Boeing in 5 years or so. I think I’ll leave the day trading to you guys. I have a system that has been working well without too much effort or ulcers lol.
    Boeing might be a good pick up since it produces aircraft for civilian and also military. It's not going anywhere.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Warren Buffet dumped his major airline stocks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...after-covid-19
    Ya, I saw the conference and I agree about Boeing. I've been watching them too but see them still a bit too high. If they drop down to about 110 I'll sell a put for 100 and see what happens. I was watching JetBlue today and tried to sell a put for $7 a share exp 5/15 but it went unfilled. Might have dodged a bullet.

    @Tim - what I'm doing isnt exactly day trading (about 10% of my strategy). Options are way safer and consistent income if one doesn't get greedy. Its hard to fight that urge sometimes thou Better than buying silver
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    I used to play around with high volatility stocks but I don’t enjoy it. Made some money but don’t like the added stress so I’m heavily invested long term in boring old index based mutual funds. That said I was just thinking about Boeing, it’s cheap and going forward people will still fly, but it might become the norm to not pack passengers in like cattle so perhaps there could be a substantial upside to Boeing in 5 years or so. I think I’ll leave the day trading to you guys. I have a system that has been working well without too much effort or ulcers lol.
    Your system outperforms 90% of professional traders.
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  17. #17
    Registered User Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    Your system outperforms 90% of professional traders.
    LOL so true. Many years ago I had a financial advisor that decimated my account. Good time.
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    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    Ya, I saw the conference and I agree about Boeing. I've been watching them too but see them still a bit too high. If they drop down to about 110 I'll sell a put for 100 and see what happens. I was watching JetBlue today and tried to sell a put for $7 a share exp 5/15 but it went unfilled. Might have dodged a bullet.

    @Tim - what I'm doing isnt exactly day trading (about 10% of my strategy). Options are way safer and consistent income if one doesn't get greedy. Its hard to fight that urge sometimes thou Better than buying silver
    My wife’s grandpa does something similar. He tried explaining it to me but I don’t understand how it works honestly lol. Good on you, you’ve come a long way. I remember our phone conversations from several years ago before you were investing at all. I was begging you to get in the market now you’re making money doing stuff I can’t wrap my mind around lol.

    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    Your system outperforms 90% of professional traders.
    Boggleheads guide to investing FTW. Yes the way I do it is a near guarantee of success barring economic collapse. If that happened fiat currency (money) wouldn't be worth anything anyway. I invest 100% in S&P500 index fund, dollar cost averaging in, and holding for the long term. I hedge with some other tangible assets precious metals like silver, gold, brass and lead. I’m doing the investing thing with about 30% of my gross income hoping that works out well, and hedging with prepper like goods lol. I plan to buy land when I retire somewhere far away hopefully near mountains, hunting and clean water to fish in.
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    My wife’s grandpa does something similar. He tried explaining it to me but I don’t understand how it works honestly lol. Good on you, you’ve come a long way. I remember our phone conversations from several years ago before you were investing at all. I was begging you to get in the market now you’re making money doing stuff I can’t wrap my mind around lol.
    Yup. You pointed me to some great resources that sent me down the rabbit hole where I found out about options.
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    Yup. You pointed me to some great resources that sent me down the rabbit hole where I found out about options.
    It’s pretty much the only game in town if you want your money to retain its buying power or beat inflation and not be a landlord etc (which I have no desire to do). I mean you could go goats too, but they would likely mess up your yard and don’t think your dog would like them .
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    Your system outperforms 90% of professional traders.
    I've heard it said like this: when playing blackjack, would you take a card if you had 20?!?! You have a better chance at getting an ace to improve your hand than you do investing in a mutual fund that will beat its index

    I'm not an active trader, but I've accumulated some seed money to invest since paying the house off a couple years ago, and my wife has a rollover from her first employer that we've bought individual stocks with (everything else is in mutual funds that likely won't beat their benchmark . . . wait, wut?). My problem is that I look at my holdings way too infrequently. I never wanted to be a frequent investor, but instead, I want to invest in stocks that I think will grow for a few years, but even still, I should be checking things so often to make sure that the fundamentals haven't changed or that there aren't any "accounting irregularities" that have been discovered.
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    I've considered playing around with active trading but have no clue where to begin or how much I need to start (in earnest). Suggestions?
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  23. #23
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    Got a nice sursprise today where an ICO I invested in 16 months ago and had almost forgotten about out of nowhere shot up 10x. Sold immediately and now have enough to pay my capital gains so that was nice.

    Did a couple of months of newbie currency trading 2 years ago after 6 months prepping, listening to about 200 interviews/podcasts with experienced traders sharing their wisdom. Liked it and did fairly well I think for a beginner - lost 2% of the account. Most frustrating was these random things happening to mess up your trade, like North Korea sending up a missile or something like that. Kept to a 1-2% postion size in order not to risk any larger set backs and just train a bit.

    Also did something like my own attempt at a mean reversion strategy using excel and pricing data for gold vs silver and sold/bought one or the other based on stdev. one price went from the other or something like that. Forget exactly what I did, but things like this was fun and hope to maybe get back to it at some point.

    Right now I just sit on a handful of some "safer" cryptos. Hope to have some more of several asset types in the future, like precious metals etc and then just play around or gamble with a smaller amount just because the fun of it.

    I'm still in a group of about a hundred folks with varying backgrounds that aim to continue with ICO's and the like if or when it picks up again. We had a good run in 2018 with 1 or 2 deals a week with new projects and hit 5 million collected as our biggest one to date. Results started great with some 50x results, but then hit many duds or what you call it. But still fun to learn what to look for and see conversations and investigations done by folks with financial, legal, programming backgrounds, or even idiots with no clue sometimes.
    Last edited by steffo99; 05-07-2020 at 05:07 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    It’s pretty much the only game in town if you want your money to retain its buying power or beat inflation and not be a landlord etc (which I have no desire to do). I mean you could go goats too, but they would likely mess up your yard and don’t think your dog would like them .

    think it through
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    Interesting thread.


    I have 3 brokerages I use:

    45%, set it and forget it.

    45%, a mix, mainly long term

    10% where I have a bunch of fun living my dreams of Wolf on Wall Street. If I hit on anything here it flows into my long term portfolios.
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  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    I've considered playing around with active trading but have no clue where to begin or how much I need to start (in earnest). Suggestions?
    Jeff - depending on your broker you can start w/ $1. I use Robinhood for this active trading account also use Fidelity's Thinkorswim platform too but that one has an overload of info and commissions on options (not stocks).

    I encourage anyone starting out to really look at options (which are contracts to buy/sell 100 shares of stock at a set price) because you can develop a strategy to make money on the stock movement as well as money on the contracts to buy/sell thee stocks. It using your money as collateral to make more money - Merica. It's also not too complicated and doesnt need to be micro managed unless your goal is to only collect that sweet contract premium. Then you should be more active.

    Check out this series. Its got some reddit WSB jargon but other than that he explains option strategy's really really well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0J8...pkUcYUsrAaKQen

    Also, stay away from penny stocks. They are nothing more than pump and dumps where the retail investor just about always gets stuck holding the bag. Buy/sell companies you use, know, and understand.
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  27. #27
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    Originally Posted by steffo99 View Post
    <snip>
    Cyrpto isnt a space I play in. Whats your thoughts long term? Volatility seems crazy.

    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Interesting thread.


    I have 3 brokerages I use:

    45%, set it and forget it.

    45%, a mix, mainly long term

    10% where I have a bunch of fun living my dreams of Wolf on Wall Street. If I hit on anything here it flows into my long term portfolios.
    How are you doing on the 10% account? Do you just buy, hold, sell? What types of companies do you target?

    My "hold" companies are Apple, AMD, Ally Financial, and Microsoft right now (still eyeballing Delta but I'll wait until after Q2). I downsized a lot of my positions and went mostly just options to ride the current swings in the market. Before Cov-19 the market was like printing money and I got a little more careless moving away from my normal strategy. Needless to say I won't do that again
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    I've considered playing around with active trading but have no clue where to begin or how much I need to start (in earnest). Suggestions?
    To be completely honest with you all I did was just create an account with my banks brokerage arm fall of 2008, I spoke to a customer service rep who explained in 10 min how to make a purchase. An example here Proctor and Gamble: Winter of 2009 I could not understand how a company like this was getting its stock hammered on wall street. I know a bit about accounting from work so I could clearly see that they were not a big risk in the long term and were still paying dividends. PG was also and still is our largest customer, so I had a really good feel about them, besides go to Walmart or a supermaret and look at the shelves and the brand names on them. Before this time I was into mutual funds so I had a very basic understanding of how the markets work for everyday stocks, additionally I had read a couple of books like "the wealthy barber" and some others like it. I took my "profit" from PG last summer...by selling it, all those years I received their dividends...4 times per year along the way in addition to the general appreciation of the stock. I took this same approach with a basket of widely held and sound conservative stocks since around that time and did maybe just a little better than a mutual fund with the exception that I did not pay any "management fees"...MERS etc that you would pay with banks etc. I just paid a small flat fee for making a trade...a buy or sell. Those MERs eat up your profits, and my stock picks were not bundled with a bunch of crappy or risky companies either like they do in mutual funds.

    This is another book I read:

    https://www.amazon.com/Understanding...3N962DMT0BC12R

    Many brokerage firms, at least mine does...will allow you to set up a practice account and learn with practice trades. Just pick some stocks that you understand, read their annual report and any analyst information you can get.

    My honest opinion is to wait a bit to actually buy anything for real as the markets are going to be all over the place for quite some time.
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  29. #29
    Getting Toned steffo99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    Cyrpto isnt a space I play in. Whats your thoughts long term? Volatility seems crazy.
    Long term I see it as more risky to stay out rather than participate a bit. I'm not a programmer or technical enough to on my own go deep into it but follow key news and channels a little everyday. It is a whole new future technology basically being built for many fields, not just a few silly coins as has long been portrayed. The white paper for bitcoin seems part of what gives it value - apparently einstein level and infrastructure to build on which many tech people even have a hard time grasping.

    There are obviously many facets to it, but staying out of it at this point is to me like one would chose to stay out of personal computers in the 90's. Some of the largest traditional institutions are heavily into it at this point, one picking up a few hundred millions worth every few days.

    The thing is that thousands of the most brilliant minds on the planet are working tirelessly on this all over the world and you have to wonder what the value of that is or can be.

    I'm just into a handful ones, but yeah short term it is very volatile and risky. On the other hand, volatility is kind of the lifeblood of trading and what got me interested in the first place. But no longer daytrading what I hold is Bitcoin, south korea's largest project (ICX, with state infrastructure contracts), a chineese project with one of the windows creators attempting a sort of new operating system for the internet, a small Danish project with former Märsk officers attempting a better system for tracking/assigning content in shipping containers.


    I recommend those with the slighest interest to watch this interview Raoul Pal has with Dan Tapiero for a good perspective coming from traditional finance guys and looking at/valuing/understanding this better.

    Last edited by steffo99; 05-07-2020 at 08:17 AM.
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    Originally Posted by steffo99 View Post
    <snip>
    Wow thanks for the response and the link. I'll check it out. I've thought about buying fractional into Bitcoin but always chicken out. It's on the low end of its high (if 9k is low ) so maybe I'll start.
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