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  1. #1
    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Lightbulb New M4A Study: Will Save Americans $450 Billion and Prevent 68,000 Unnecessary Deaths

    ...each year.

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...on-and-prevent
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...019-3/fulltext

    Sen. Bernie Sanders on Saturday applauded a new study published today by a team of epidemiologists in the peer-reviewed medical journal The Lancet, which found that Medicare for All will save Americans $450 billion and prevent 68,000 unnecessary deaths each and every year.

    “This study confirms that Medicare for All will save the American people $450 billion on health care costs and will prevent 68,000 unnecessary deaths – each and every year,” Sanders said. “In other words, guaranteeing health care as a human right by creating a Medicare for All system will cost substantially less than our current dysfunctional health care system. It will save working class families thousands of dollars and it will prevent tens of thousands of Americans from dying each year. While the CEOs in the pharmaceutical and health insurance industry may not like it, we will end their greed and enact Medicare for All when I am president.”

    According to the study, by replacing premiums, deductibles, co-payments and out-of-pocket costs with a progressive tax system, Medicare for All will save the average family thousands of dollars each year and will provide lower-income households the greatest relief.

    Struggling hospitals serving low-income communities would be particularly helped by Medicare for All by eliminating uncompensated care, increasing Medicaid reimbursement rates to Medicare levels, and reducing administrative overhead, according to the study.

    The study also debunks several attacks on Medicare for All from the private health care industry that made well over $100 billion in profits last year. Doctors and hospitals would see large savings in cost and time from streamlining our bloated and inefficient administrative and billing system, allowing doctors to spend more time with patients, the study found.

    The study is the latest in a series of studies conducted over the past three decades that have found that guaranteeing universal health care through a single-payer health care system would not only dramatically improve the health and well-being of the American people, it would cost less than our current dysfunctional health care system that puts profits over people.

    Last month, another medical journal found that 19 out of 22 studies done over the past 30 years concluded that moving to a Medicare for All, single-payer health care system would cost less than our current health care system in the first year, and all of the studies showed that it would cost less within a decade of implementation.
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  2. #2
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    It absolutely would cost less than the current system, I don't think that's even disputable at this point. Have you seen what administration costs are in the US compared to countries with single payer? It's insanity.

    Whether Americans would put up with higher taxes to pay for it, even if it net saves many Americans money and saves some Americans a huge amount of money, is a whole different ballgame.
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  3. #3
    Angus McFife XIII badreligion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    It absolutely would cost less than the current system, I don't think that's even disputable at this point. Have you seen what administration costs are in the US compared to countries with single payer? It's insanity.

    Whether Americans would put up with higher taxes to pay for it, even if it net saves many Americans money and saves some Americans a huge amount of money, is a whole different ballgame.
    People hear "tax increase" and they instantly shut down, plain and simple. Healthcare needs a reform that's for sure, people shouldn't have to pay 40 dollars for an inhaler *I use that as an example because it happened to my mother* but someone like Bernie Sanders who has zero experience in healthcare should not be in charge of trying to fix it nor should the government run it because they are incompetent too.
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  4. #4
    privilege ☑ jtaylor2010's Avatar
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    Has there ever been an industry that the govt. took over and managed to make more efficient??
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    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    Has there ever been an industry that the govt. took over and managed to make more efficient??
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4511963/

    This paper discusses a well known example of a US hospital with 900 beds, which required 1300 billing staff to accurately bill patients for care, due to the complexity of dealing with so many different insurers each with different plans.

    Is this that famous private sector efficiency you're talking about?
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  6. #6
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by badreligion View Post
    People hear "tax increase" and they instantly shut down, plain and simple. Healthcare needs a reform that's for sure, people shouldn't have to pay 40 dollars for an inhaler *I use that as an example because it happened to my mother* but someone like Bernie Sanders who has zero experience in healthcare should not be in charge of trying to fix it nor should the government run it because they are incompetent too.
    Here's how you fix it IMO:

    -Universal public option, ie. expand Medicare eligibility to anyone who wants to opt in
    -Keep private insurance for those who want it, promote increased market competition as well as transparent pricing
    -Price controls on pharma products
    -Triple the NIH budget so that more drugs can be developed in the public sector
    -Invest in automation and digitization of administration/clerical aspects
    -Invest in preventative strategies and teaching starting right in public schools

    This could be pretty bipartisan. There'd be some increase in tax no doubt, but nowhere near Bernie's version.
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  7. #7
    kein mitleid fr mehrheit Stizzel's Avatar
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    making people wait in lines for care sure does save money

    I was able to

    get diagnosed by my doctor on a monday
    see a specialist on wednesday
    have outpatient surgery on friday

    **** off communist scum. I'd prefer unhealthy people actually die, same as heroin addicts and alcoholics

    How about a SUGAR TAX
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  9. #9
    Angus McFife XIII badreligion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    Here's how you fix it IMO:

    -Universal public option, ie. expand Medicare eligibility to anyone who wants to opt in
    -Keep private insurance for those who want it, promote increased market competition as well as transparent pricing
    -Price controls on pharma products
    -Triple the NIH budget so that more drugs can be developed in the public sector
    -Invest in automation and digitization of administration/clerical aspects
    -Invest in preventative strategies and teaching starting right in public schools

    This could be pretty bipartisan. There'd be some increase in tax no doubt, but nowhere near Bernie's version.
    It's a reasonable proposal but still the whole "tax increase" will inevitably turn people away.
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  10. #10
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    Higher taxes and govt ran? LOL nah **** off. Pass individual laws to control price gouging sure. But we don't need a complete overhual.
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    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Strong support for government health care on Fox News:
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    Do conservatives really not understand that higher taxes for healthcare will be offset by the elimination of premiums and other healthcare cost?

    And anyone who uses efficient and insurance companies in the same breath needs their heads examined. In fact, I'd wager Medicare is more efficient and cost effective than commercial payors.
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    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    Do conservatives really not understand
    The answer to this is typically, yes.
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    Registered User JesseV87's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    Here's how you fix it IMO:

    -Universal public option, ie. expand Medicare eligibility to anyone who wants to opt in
    -Keep private insurance for those who want it, promote increased market competition as well as transparent pricing
    -Price controls on pharma products
    -Triple the NIH budget so that more drugs can be developed in the public sector
    -Invest in automation and digitization of administration/clerical aspects
    -Invest in preventative strategies and teaching starting right in public schools

    This could be pretty bipartisan. There'd be some increase in tax no doubt, but nowhere near Bernie's version.
    To me a public option only works if everyone is paying into it. If you try to satisfy both private and public markets you end up with bloated premiums like Obamacare did since only working-class people are financing it.
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    Md, Misc, Old-Brah SillieBazzillie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    The answer to this is typically, yes.
    Oh there are a few things they think they understand quite well. For example, unemployment is fake and the real unemployment number should be the workforce participation rate. They know that sub 3% GDP means the economy is horrible. They think trillion dollar deficits are impeachment worthy. They think a cabinet filled with wall st and big business guys is the sign of the swamp.

    Oh lawd they are a show.
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    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JesseV87 View Post
    To me a public option only works if everyone is paying into it. If you try to satisfy both private and public markets you end up with bloated premiums like Obamacare did since only working-class people are financing it.
    Everyone will be contributing to it in some form via tax. And everyone will equally be eligible to use it any time they want.

    In essence it won't be very different to how healthcare is done in other countries with single payer. There's a universal public system which taxpayers all pay into and anyone can use, along with private healthcare if people want to opt for that.

    The private market will remain pretty large in the US (in other countries it represents a small % of healthcare) but the concept will be the same.
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    Registered User ImBunky's Avatar
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    Women with breast cancer denied life-changing reconstructive surgery to 'reduce NHS costs', investigation finds
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-a8404321.html
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  18. #18
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    NHS funding has been dreadful for the past 10 years, and most of us have been wanting to see it drastically increased. You know the total NHS England budget is like £120 billion a year, right? Compare that to how much the US spends on healthcare, even when you factor in the difference in population.

    Tl;dr OK boomer.
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    Seriously worry about your own ****ty healthcare
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  20. #20
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    I thought climate change was 8-years away from complete collapse?

    Wouldn’t reducing the population be a better choice?

    I mean logically based on liberal assertion, we should work on survival for all, rather than 68,000 right?

    Riddle me this one
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  21. #21
    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BOZZ View Post
    Seriously worry about your own ****ty healthcare
    I don't have to worry, if I get injured or sick I go to the doctor and get treated promptly. No out of pocket expense.

    The current American system is clearly broken, especially when looked at internationally. That's when the scam really gets exposed.

    Although health care expenditure per capita is higher in the USA than in any other country, more than 37 million Americans do not have health insurance, and 41 million more have inadequate access to care. Efforts are ongoing to repeal the Affordable Care Act which would exacerbate health-care inequities. By contrast, a universal system, such as that proposed in the Medicare for All Act, has the potential to transform the availability and efficiency of American health-care services. Taking into account both the costs of coverage expansion and the savings that would be achieved through the Medicare for All Act, we calculate that a single-payer, universal health-care system is likely to lead to a 13% savings in national health-care expenditure, equivalent to more than US$450 billion annually (based on the value of the US$ in 2017).

    The entire system could be funded with less financial outlay than is incurred by employers and households paying for health-care premiums combined with existing government allocations. This shift to single-payer health care would provide the greatest relief to lower-income households. Furthermore, we estimate that ensuring health-care access for all Americans would save more than 68 000 lives and 1·73 million life-years every year compared with the status quo.
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    Do conservatives really not understand that higher taxes for healthcare will be offset by the elimination of premiums and other healthcare cost?

    And anyone who uses efficient and insurance companies in the same breath needs their heads examined. In fact, I'd wager Medicare is more efficient and cost effective than commercial payors.
    It’s just not that simple, and to be honest I’d say we can’t really know how it would play out. Some people would be better off and some would be worse. But again, we don’t know if it would be a net positive for the country. We do know that govt. has a bad record of managing sectors. We also know that the poorest people make the worst decisions and are the least healthy. Some can say that is already factored into our current cost so those people use services and are least likely to pay, but we are able to do our best to stay healthy and minimize the likelihood that we’re exposed to those costs that show up in the form of more expensive care. Obviously everyone needs treatment at some time though, and unfortunately way too many people need way too much treatment. That’s the real conversation we need to have. It isn’t about finding a way to pay for everyone’s healthcare, it’s about finding a way to create a healthy population. Unless we make that the focus we won’t get very far.
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  23. #23
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    I’m tired of pretending that the debt matters.

    I’m tired of pretending that any significant number of politicians are fiscally conservative or have our best interests in mind.

    I’m tired of doing the bidding of big insurance companies and big corporations.

    It’s time to put humanity first for Americans.

    That’s a few of the reasons why I now support M4A with the option to keep your private health insurance.
    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.
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    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HoganIsGOAT View Post
    I’m tired of pretending that the debt matters.
    Debt only matters to republicans when democrats are in power. Ironically, it's always been the republicans who fuk up the economy.

    https://www.usdebtclock.org/

    the founding fathers are rolling in their graves
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    Originally Posted by HoganIsGOAT View Post
    It’s time to put humanity first
    "What has destroyed every previous civilization has been the tendency to the unequal distribution of wealth and power" - Henry George

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  26. #26
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    I have my doubts about M4A, but I'm willing to give it a shot.
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  27. #27
    It's not the gun, stupid. Ikeman83's Avatar
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    The reality is that most people use very little healthcare, but some people use a ****load of healthcare.

    Effectively, you're talking about substantially raising everyone's taxes for a benefit which they do not need, to reduce the cost of healthcare for those who use a lot.

    Universal health care can function if we create an immediate eugenics program for genetic inferiors.

    Oh wait, that's what the actual Nazis did when they created universal health care.

    It happens in Europe presently. If there's a chance your kid has a genetic defect they'll recommend abortion. Of course, with the tax rate being what it is fewer people are able to have children, and they have them later.

    Nothing says "good for society" like discouraging your citizens from having children to the point that importing people from the third world sounds like a good idea...
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  28. #28
    It's not the gun, stupid. Ikeman83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    I don't have to worry, if I get injured or sick I go to the doctor and get treated promptly. No out of pocket expense.

    The current American system is clearly broken, especially when looked at internationally. That's when the scam really gets exposed.


    Get treated promptly. LOL!
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  29. #29
    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ikeman83 View Post
    Get treated promptly. LOL!
    Yep. Throughout my life i've had to go to the hospital for a handful of times. Broken bones and pneumonia. Treated instantly for each. There was one time I went to the hospital and it wasn't an emergency (but was in the middle of the night), so I went through triage and ended up waiting a couple of hours. Going to the doctor walk-in clinic with no appointment is usually anywhere from a few min wait to 30 min. No out of pocket cost.
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  30. #30
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    ALso ****ing LOL at citing a progressive news center and Liberal as **** Yale
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