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  1. #1
    Registered User pinesalmog's Avatar
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    How can I drop my bodyfat down as quick as possible with out losing muscle

    And without counting calories..?

    I know this sounds like a ridiculous question, since almost everyone here mentioneds caloric deficit, which I understand is just taking in less energy than needed for the body, thus the body going into a fat burning mode (post glycogen depletion). The body doesnt really run on a 24 hour basis, so it's just a way of keeping track that someone is overall burning off more energy than being taken in.

    So what's a good way to burn as much fat as possible, while maintaining muscle or even adding some, while not counting? I honestly can just pay attention to how I feel and eat according to changes I see in the mirror.

    Thank you.
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  2. #2
    Registered User TryingBB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pinesalmog View Post
    And without counting calories..?

    I know this sounds like a ridiculous question, since almost everyone here mentioneds caloric deficit, which I understand is just taking in less energy than needed for the body, thus the body going into a fat burning mode (post glycogen depletion). The body doesnt really run on a 24 hour basis, so it's just a way of keeping track that someone is overall burning off more energy than being taken in.

    So what's a good way to burn as much fat as possible, while maintaining muscle or even adding some, while not counting? I honestly can just pay attention to how I feel and eat according to changes I see in the mirror.

    Thank you.
    Sounds like you already know the answers but you’re not willing to put in the work. smh

    Counting calories literally takes tops 7 to 8 minutes a day in 2 minute intervals for every meal (for me it takes half of that tome - 1 minute for every meal tops)

    Oh if that’s a trick question - lol - gain muscle without gaining fat. and you will drop bodyfat (percentage wise).

    When you figure out how to do either one of the two, come enlighten us. Maybe you’ll get a Nobel for it :/
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  3. #3
    Registered User pinesalmog's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Sounds like you already know the answers but you’re not willing to put in the work. smh

    Counting calories literally takes tops 7 to 8 minutes a day in 2 minute intervals for every meal (for me it takes half of that tome - 1 minute for every meal tops)
    I'm willing to put in the work, it's just that counting calories becomes obsessive for me, and actually affects me negatively throughout the day. I feel like I'm always analyzing everything I'm eating, going to eat, thinking about how much I might be over or under calories, etc.
    It takes up like 1 hour of day along with all the looking back and verifying everything.
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  4. #4
    Registered User TryingBB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pinesalmog View Post
    I'm willing to put in the work, it's just that counting calories becomes obsessive for me, and actually affects me negatively throughout the day. I feel like I'm always analyzing everything I'm eating, going to eat, thinking about how much I might be over or under calories, etc.
    It takes up like 1 hour of day along with all the looking back and verifying everything.
    Are you using an app? Get MyFitnessPal

    Figure out your target calories

    Start logging

    It’s liberating

    Everyone makes mistakes counting calories seems like. You will make your own of mistakes. But remember you will make the same mistakes every day.

    So you will eventually find out (observe 1 to 2 week moving average weight) if you’re gaining or loosing or maintaining weight.

    Adjust calories by a 100 (add or remove based on results and goal weight)

    I was weighting my chicken wrong for fuken 1 year. I still gained weight and lost weight and maintained weight according to my target.
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  5. #5
    Registered User pinesalmog's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Are you using an app? Get MyFitnessPal

    Figure out your target calories

    Start logging

    It’s liberating

    Everyone makes mistakes counting calories seems like. You will make your own of mistakes. But remember you will make the same mistakes every day.

    So you will eventually find out (observe 1 to 2 week moving average weight) if you’re gaining or loosing or maintaining weight.

    Adjust calories by a 100 (add or remove based on results and goal weight)

    I was weighting my chicken wrong for fuken 1 year. I still gained weight and lost weight and maintained weight according to my target.
    I do all of this. I log calories and protein intake on my phone. It's the act of adding calories, worrying about them, adjusting them, the whole ordeal. I'm not a fan of it. I hate it. I'd rather just eat like a human and get results from hard work in the gym. Isn't that how it should be?? Unreal for us all to count all the time.
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  6. #6
    Theres a toll in the hall SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    If you have mental issues around food then I think it's going to be a problem regardless of what method you use.

    If you used some other method then you would transfer your worries to whether it's working or not - if anything there will be more uncertainty.

    But in technical terms, ultimately you have to produce calorie deficit - whatever method you choose needs to achieve that consistently. In the interests of keeping it simple, calories and grams of protein is the best minimal set of metrics to use. That plus choosing low calorie dense foods that fill you up like lean meat, eggs and lots of vegetables
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  7. #7
    Registered User pinesalmog's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    If you have mental issues around food then I think it's going to be a problem regardless of what method you use.

    If you used some other method then you would transfer your worries to whether it's working or not - if anything there will be more uncertainty.

    But in technical terms, ultimately you have to produce calorie deficit - whatever method you choose needs to achieve that consistently. In the interests of keeping it simple, calories and grams of protein is the best minimal set of metrics to use. That plus choosing low calorie dense foods that fill you up like lean meat, eggs and lots of vegetables
    I absolutely have mental issues around food. I might be bipolar, and I definitely deal with some form of body dysmorphia, even some OCD. I'd rather just find a balance between diet, exercise, and lifestyle so I dont have to calculate eveyerday, just feel it out.
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  8. #8
    Theres a toll in the hall SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pinesalmog View Post
    I absolutely have mental issues around food. I might be bipolar, and I definitely deal with some form of body dysmorphia, even some OCD. I'd rather just find a balance between diet, exercise, and lifestyle so I dont have to calculate eveyerday, just feel it out.
    This is compeltely different to having a goal of "drop my bodyfat down as quick as possible"

    I think you should get counselling before worrying about this. Mental health is about 1000x more important than vanity/appearance.
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    If you meal prep, all your meals will be portioned out in advance and so you will know your exact calories providing you stick to your daily meal plan.
    That would stop you obsessing about calories because you will already know in advance for a day where your calories will sit - unless you choose to eat foods/snacks that are not part of the plan... but that is about self control.

    I'd agree with the advice to seek help with your mental health - if you can make improvements there you will find the physical changes easier to make in the long run.
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  10. #10
    Registered User pinesalmog's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    This is compeltely different to having a goal of "drop my bodyfat down as quick as possible"

    I think you should get counselling before worrying about this. Mental health is about 1000x more important than vanity/appearance.
    I do counseling... for a variety of reasons. Been in therapy for about 7 years now. Lots of mental issues came up at around age 17-18. It's been a hell of a 7-8 years now since, and I'll be 25 in 10 days.
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  11. #11
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    Focus on eating foods high in satiety so you feel full faster and take in less calories on average. There are satiety charts online, buy those foods?

    Count calories for a few months and track your weight meticulously. I know you said it's a negative thing for you, but find a way to get over it. This will give you a solid understanding of what and how much you eat affects your weight. The knowledge is empowering and once you've got a good idea of where you're at, you get very good at estimating where you're at for the day, and counting becomes unnecessary for the most part (unless you're competing or something). I counted meticulously for almost 2 years. The last 6-7 months I haven't, but I bet I can tell you within a 200 calorie margin where I end each day at. It's engrained in me. (I'm not saying you need to count for 2 years, but even a couple months will help).

    In the end, a deficit is what matters. If you're not losing, you're not in a deficit. Figure out how to stay in a deficit on average over a long period of time, and you'll lose weight.

    Either way, if you want to do it in the quickest way without losing muscle, you'll need to count. You can't have it both ways.
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    Theres a toll in the hall SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pinesalmog View Post
    I do counseling... for a variety of reasons. Been in therapy for about 7 years now. Lots of mental issues came up at around age 17-18. It's been a hell of a 7-8 years now since, and I'll be 25 in 10 days.
    You could run your idea of losing fat past your counsellors. I imagine they would be OK with a general healthy lifestyle - but a heavy focus on rapid fat loss is not actually that healthy - either physically or mentally. So I expect they will be less keen on that idea.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by pinesalmog View Post
    I'm willing to put in the work, it's just that counting calories becomes obsessive for me, and actually affects me negatively throughout the day. I feel like I'm always analyzing everything I'm eating, going to eat, thinking about how much I might be over or under calories, etc.
    It takes up like 1 hour of day along with all the looking back and verifying everything.
    i used to be like this too, luckily it stopped after some time. i ballpark things to be like 500 calories, 700 calories, 650 calories etc. and it's been pretty chill yet still useful

    then again, i kinda rotate the same foods over and over, so the calories aren't randomly guessed. based on scale numbers, my calculations haven't been wildly inaccurate
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    One thing that may help with maintaining a deficit without counting is intermittent fasting. By restricting your eating window each day to 4 to 8 hours it is easier to just naturally eat less food. If you haven’t done it before I would recommend starting slow with a 12-16 hour window and work your way down to a smaller window gradually.

    Of course, it isn’t for everyone and it is technically not a weight loss diet but more of a lifestyle. You can still eat in a surplus with IF but in my opinion it is harder to do than just eating whenever you want. It may be helpful in your case if you get too obsessive on calorie tracking.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by pinesalmog View Post
    And without counting calories..?

    I know this sounds like a ridiculous question, since almost everyone here mentioneds caloric deficit, which I understand is just taking in less energy than needed for the body, thus the body going into a fat burning mode (post glycogen depletion). The body doesnt really run on a 24 hour basis, so it's just a way of keeping track that someone is overall burning off more energy than being taken in.

    So what's a good way to burn as much fat as possible, while maintaining muscle or even adding some, while not counting? I honestly can just pay attention to how I feel and eat according to changes I see in the mirror.

    Thank you.
    Your solution will depend entirely on your ability to auto-regulate intake based on hunger, assuming you consume enough protein to avoid muscle loss.

    Some people have a low appetite, while others have a naturally high appetite that makes it difficult to remain lean.

    Thus, there is no single answer here.

    My personal tips:

    - Ensure you consume high protein foods at each meal
    - Consume large amounts of vegetables
    - Minimize if not eliminate refined sugar, oil, and other very high-calorie-dense foods

    It really depends on how you manage hunger. Most people, when cutting, know what it feels like to feel 'true' hunger eventually, and it's a pretty good sign you're in a deficit.

    But like I said, this depends on how accurate your hunger is in serving as a measure of calorie intake/balance.

    For me, even though I don't 'track' a single thing, I can look at my meals and know it's within a certain calorie range, so even though I never pay attention, my hunger and natural eye for portioning has become such a second-nature that I know if I'm eating within my maintenance range or if i'm above it, or below it.
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    I would recommend just picking a goal (lose bf or gain muscle) and as far as counting calories go, use Myfitnesspal for a while and you'll eventually know portion sizes just by eyeing it. Just keep track of your weight so you know if you are losing or gaining.
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    Originally Posted by CaptKirk90 View Post
    I would recommend just picking a goal (lose bf or gain muscle) and as far as counting calories go, use Myfitnesspal for a while and you'll eventually know portion sizes just by eyeing it. Just keep track of your weight so you know if you are losing or gaining.
    Well, his entire goal here is to not use a tracker, so I doubt this is going to work for him.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Well, his entire goal here is to not use a tracker, so I doubt this is going to work for him.


    I know just saying he might have to suck it up for a little just to get used to portion sizes. If hes really not wanting to use the tracker then listening to your body and knowing when you are hungry is the better option but if hes trying to be accurate with macros and whatnot then knowing portion sizes is good for that. I'm still pretty knew to this, just trying to give my two cents
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    You need to find a set of rules that works for you when you're tying to stay in a deficit.

    These are my dieting rules:

    1) eat 4 meals per day and eat nothing in between meals. No snacks, no juice.. Just the 4 meals. This is the main rule.

    2) make something you love part of your daily food. For me... When I'm dieting I eat steak and eggs every morning. 50-60 grams of steak, 2 eggs, a slice of bread, sometimes cheese and hot sauce. I love steak like nobody's business so this starts my day off good.

    3) 4th meal is always a bowl of fruits with 250 grams of cottage cheese before bed time. In the summer they have really good plums. This rule helps me avoid getting into bad snacks like cookies and chocolate.

    5) get at least 30 grams of protein per meal.

    I know it sounds like I'm tracking but I'm not. The only tings I weigh are my steak in the morning and my cottage cheese at night.

    Those are rules that work for me. Everyone will have different rules that work for them. I basically eat whatever I want for lunch and dinner within reason. I can't be having cheese burgers and large fries on the daily. Be mindful and choose lower calorie options
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    I’m cutting at the moment without counting calories. It’s not that hard. Most of my food is lean protein (chicken, fish, whey) with salads. I don’t completely avoid carbs but they’re greatly restricted.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    I’m cutting at the moment without counting calories. It’s not that hard. Most of my food is lean protein (chicken, fish, whey) with salads. I don’t completely avoid carbs but they’re greatly restricted.
    Trying to do the same

    I notice if mainly pro as the majority of my meals I don’t have to count though I Probably wouldn’t anyway

    Hazy but....Did we ever have a study that eating protein only that it was hard to gain weight, or something along those lines?
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    Registered User TryingBB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by boo99 View Post
    Trying to do the same

    I notice if mainly pro as the majority of my meals I don’t have to count though I Probably wouldn’t anyway

    Hazy but....Did we ever have a study that eating protein only that it was hard to gain weight, or something along those lines?
    Calories are calories

    If you eat less calories than you burn you’ll loose weight and vice versa

    Those calories can come from protien fat or carbs. Don’t matter.

    Eating enough protien during cut and bulk It’s true but that’s whole another story.

    Read a few stickies in nutrition section. Enlightening
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Calories are calories

    If you eat less calories than you burn you’ll loose weight and vice versa

    Those calories can come from protien fat or carbs. Don’t matter.

    Eating enough protien during cut and bulk It’s true but that’s whole another story.

    Read a few stickies in nutrition section. Enlightening
    Pretty sure boo knows this
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  24. #24
    Registered Lifter boo99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Calories are calories

    If you eat less calories than you burn you’ll loose weight and vice versa

    Those calories can come from protien fat or carbs. Don’t matter.

    Eating enough protien during cut and bulk It’s true but that’s whole another story.

    Read a few stickies in nutrition section. Enlightening
    LMAO

    No chit

    Bro I was here before you were born

    Go away

    Negged for pissing me off


    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Pretty sure boo knows this
    Apparently some don't think so lol
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    Looking at boo's pic he obviously knows something. Ignore the rest though until pics seen.
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    Originally Posted by boo99 View Post
    LMAO

    No chit

    Bro I was here before you were born

    Go away

    Negged for pissing me off




    Apparently some don't think so lol
    Thanks for the neg. negged you right back. It sure sounded like you said if someone ate only protein it was harder to gain weight. essentially could mean that eating protien MAY not result in weight gain - without regards to caloric surplus. A newbie like me would fall right for it specially looking at your AVI...

    anyhow, Lmao...never meant to challenge or piss anyone. I always say this - I’m a newbie what do I know?? lol on top I’m 20% fat on my way to being more muscular. Slow but steady improvements.

    Were you then just kidding or being sarcastic when you said “ .Did we ever have a study that eating protein only that it was hard to gain weight, or something along those lines?”?? lol smh
    Last edited by TryingBB; 02-16-2020 at 06:46 AM.
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Thanks for the neg. negged you right back. It sure sounded like you said if someone ate only protein it was harder to gain weight. essentially could mean that eating protien MAY not result in weight gain - without regards to caloric surplus. A newbie like me would fall right for it specially looking at your AVI...

    anyhow, Lmao...never meant to challenge or piss anyone. I always say this - I’m a newbie what do I know?? lol on top I’m 20% fat on my way to being more muscular. Slow but steady improvements.

    Were you then just kidding or being sarcastic when you said “ .Did we ever have a study that eating protein only that it was hard to gain weight, or something along those lines?”??

    I sometimes don’t get the sarcasms and think it’s for real. Haha
    Protein as a substrate is rarely converted to fat... that’s a fact. The pathway is highly inefficient
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Protein as a substrate is rarely converted to fat... that’s a fact. The pathway is highly inefficient
    If my maintenance is 2300 and I ate 2800 calories in protein only (fuking can’t even imagine), I won’t get fat? Maybe cuz I’d be dead cuz of liver and kidney overload? Lol

    What’s the reasoning behind it?
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    If my maintenance is 2300 and I ate 2800 calories in protein only (fuking can’t even imagine), I won’t get fat? Maybe cuz I’d be dead cuz of liver and kidney overload? Lol

    What’s the reasoning behind it?
    That's a massive strawman argument... I never said you can't gain fat... I said the pathway is inefficient. Stop being ridiculous.

    The point i'm making is that protein calories are very very unlikely to be converted into fat... instead, if you overeat protein on a mixed-macronutrient diet (where you're also consuming carbs and fats) it is not THE PROTEIN that converts to fat, it will instead increase the rate at which dietary fat (and to a lesser extent carbs) is stored, with very little of the protein being stored.
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  30. #30
    Registered Lifter boo99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Protein as a substrate is rarely converted to fat... that’s a fact. The pathway is highly inefficient
    This is the study I was directing my post to Mrpb.

    It was the Antonio study

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4022420/


    This is the first interventional study to demonstrate that consuming a hypercaloric high protein diet does not result in an increase in body fat.
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