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  1. #1
    Registered User rampagefc77's Avatar
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    DOJ OLC- House subpoenas had no legal merit

    https://www.justice.gov/olc/file/1236346/download

    I said this all along, but the house subpoenas in the impeachment probe weren’t actually subpoenas because they had no legal backing. The house needs to hold a vote to establish such authority. No vote= house “subpoenas” were just mean letters.

    So the entire democrat talking point that people were defying subpoenas and obstructing their investigation was all fake.
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    I think most people who can think for themselves said this.

    The dems knew this.
    All they had to do was send out more subpoenas after an official vote.
    Why didn't they?

    there were a lot of things they could of done but chose not to.
    Almost as if they knew they were full of chit and just wanted to vote impeachment just so they can claim trump was impeached.
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    It's almost like Trump had counsel advising him about things like this yet the media still presented it like he was doing something illegal.
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    Originally Posted by rampagefc77 View Post
    https://www.justice.gov/olc/file/1236346/download

    I said this all along, but the house subpoenas in the impeachment probe weren’t actually subpoenas because they had no legal backing. The house needs to hold a vote to establish such authority. No vote= house “subpoenas” were just mean letters.

    So the entire democrat talking point that people were defying subpoenas and obstructing their investigation was all fake.
    I've tried explaining that to our legal "experts" here on several occasions, but as usual, they have no idea what they're talking about.
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    We all 100% knew this but everytime you bring it up on fb/Reddit the comments get brigaded.
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    The Democrats impeached Trump for Obstruction of Congress because he defied their "subpoenas" that had no legal merit and they were too stupid to pursue subpoenas properly. LOL at their own idiocy and their own abuse of power.
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    Pale/gross rise21's Avatar
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    Wasnt one of the articles of impeachment “obstruction of Congress” though?

    It’s almost like this whole thing is a farce...

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    Originally Posted by BuckNakedinBama View Post
    The Democrats impeached Trump for Obstruction of Congress because he defied their "subpoenas" that had no legal merit and they were too stupid to pursue subpoenas properly. LOL at their own idiocy and their own abuse of power.
    This is precisely the point... the only way the dems get away with it is a compliant media. An honest media would have called them out and shut this narrative down.
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    but CNN / MSM told me otherwise nonstop around the clock
    #triggered

    making victims out of SJWs
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    Originally Posted by chaunce54 View Post
    I've tried explaining that to our legal "experts" here on several occasions, but as usual, they have no idea what they're talking about.


    Woah... You should watch your tone, he has a bar card...

    Sandy get in here and enlighten this man with your credentials. He doesn't understand who he's dealing with.
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  11. #11
    Trolling the trolls...... dabbmw2002's Avatar
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    The House Democrats denied Republican witnesses, withheld testimonty, lied about having the whistleblower testify, lied about the contents of the phone call, improperly issued subpoenas, and failed to pursue witnesses that fall under the umbrella executive privilege but then turn around and claim obstruction of Congress.............but then have the nerve to claim the Senate has to call their witnesses or it's a miscarriage of Justice.



    These are very sick people.
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  12. #12
    Registered User LieutenantGains's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rampagefc77 View Post
    https://www.justice.gov/olc/file/1236346/download

    I said this all along, but the house subpoenas in the impeachment probe weren’t actually subpoenas because they had no legal backing. The house needs to hold a vote to establish such authority. No vote= house “subpoenas” were just mean letters.

    So the entire democrat talking point that people were defying subpoenas and obstructing their investigation was all fake.
    Congrats republicans, you actually played yourselves.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2015/...a-rules-115068

    Dems blast House GOP subpoena rules change

    By LAUREN FRENCH 02/10/2015 01:30 PM EST

    Democratic lawmakers are harshly criticizing House Republicans for altering committee rules governing how chairmen can subpoena witnesses and documents.

    In a letter shared with POLITICO, the Democrats slams the GOP conference for changing rules on a number of House committees to make it easier for Republicans to subpoena witnesses without consultation or approval from minority lawmakers - an effort that came as Republicans are preparing aggressive oversight efforts for President Barack Obama’s final two years in office.

    Sixteen Democrats, all ranking members of House committees, accused Republicans of attempting to create Darrell Issa-like committee structures, referring to the former Oversight and Government Reform chairman who was criticized by Democrats for his dogged probes into the White House.

    “For decades, responsible committee chairmen—both Democratic and Republican—recognized that the coercive power of subpoenas should be used only as a last resort, and they obtained the concurrence of the ranking member or called a committee vote before issuing subpoenas,” the lawmakers wrote on Tuesday.

    Letter-singers include Maryland Rep. Elijah Cummings, the top Democrat on the Oversight and Benghazi committees, Michigan Rep. Sander Levin, the ranking member on Ways and Means panel, New Jersey Rep. Frank Pallone, the top Democrat on Energy and Commerce Committee, and Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, the Budget Committee’s top Democrat.

    Cummings has been leading the charge against what Democrats argue is Republican over-reach into the Obama administration. He and Issa infamously quarreled over the California Republican’s investigation in the Internal Revenue Service and the Fast and Furious gun-running controversy.

    Recently Cummings has sparred with Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), the chairman of the House’s Benghazi Committee over how the GOP lawmakers governing the panel failed to include Democrats in key interviews with witnesses. Cummings has also clashed with Issa’ successor, Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) over the rules for the Oversight panel.

    In January, Republicans moved to give a number of key committees, including the Energy and Commerce Committee, the Judiciary Committee and the Financial Services Committee new subpoena powers. A handful of other committees also considered changing their governing rules.

    For a number of panels, rule change would eliminate long-standing requirements that the chairmen either consult or get consent from the minority party before issuing subpoenas for testimony and documents or hold a majority vote. The committees who saw rule changes include panels with oversight into controversial Obama policies like the Dodd-Frank financial regulations law, immigration and Obamacare.

    “This year House Republicans are changing the rules to give some chairmen unfettered authority to issue subpoenas unilaterally, adopting an abusive model embraced only by Senator Joe McCarthy, former Rep. Dan Burton, and Rep. Darrell Issa,” the lawmakers wrote. “To their credit, some well-functioning committees, such as the Committees on Appropriations, Armed Services, Intelligence, and Veterans Affairs, did not expand subpoena power for their chairmen.”

    At the time, Republican defended the rule change as necessary to effectively investigate the Obama administration.

    “The Obama administration has employed unprecedented delay tactics and in many cases an outright refusal to comply with legitimate committee oversight requests, which is why committees sought the deposition authority and are using the existing rules to give committee chairs greater latitude in issuing subpoenas,” said Doug Andres, then a spokesman for the House Rules Committee.
    Your hate boner for Obama led to additional oversight measures put in place by republicans to investigate administrations... which you can tune into today to watch on CSPAN as the president of the United States, Donald John Trump, is put on trial for impeachment.

    Take your L and go home.
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  13. #13
    Trolling the trolls...... dabbmw2002's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LieutenantGains View Post
    Congrats republicans, you actually played yourselves.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2015/...a-rules-115068



    Your hate boner for Obama led to additional oversight measures put in place by republicans to investigate administrations... which you can tune into today to watch on CSPAN as the president of the United States, Donald John Trump, is put on trial for impeachment.

    Take your L and go home.
    We advised that the committees lacked such authority because, at the time the subpoenas were issued, the House had not adopted any resolution authorizing the committees to conduct an impeachment inquiry. The Constitution vests the “sole Power of Impeachment” in the House of Representatives. U.S. Const. art. I, § 2, cl. 5. For precisely that reason, the House itself must authorize an impeachment inquiry, as it has done in virtually every prior impeachment investigation in our Nation’s history, including every one involving a President. A congressional committee’s “right to exact testimony and to call for the production of documents” is limited by the “controlling charter” the committee has received from the House. United States v. Rumely, 345 U.S. 41, 44 (1953). Yet the House, by its rules, has authorized its committees to issue subpoenas only for matters within their legislative jurisdiction. Accordingly, no committee may undertake the momentous move from legislative oversight to impeachment without a delegation by the full House of such authority.
    Legislative purposes =/= impeachment
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by chaunce54 View Post
    I've tried explaining that to our legal "experts" here on several occasions, but as usual, they have no idea what they're talking about.
    .

    It is a bit more complex than

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    Originally Posted by dabbmw2002 View Post
    The House Democrats denied Republican witnesses, withheld testimonty, lied about having the whistleblower testify, lied about the contents of the phone call, improperly issued subpoenas, and failed to pursue witnesses that fall under the umbrella executive privilege but then turn around and claim obstruction of Congress.............but then have the nerve to claim the Senate has to call their witnesses or it's a miscarriage of Justice.



    These are very sick people.



    They're just willing to do whatever it takes, Even if it means playing dirty. What they're doing is slimy, and they're definitely cutting it close to abusing their authority even if it's within the confines of their own limited authority. The system will work as intended though, He won't be removed from office. Democrats get their show. At the end of the day though, all of us lose. They've made a mockery of the system, loosely using impeachment as a tool to bolster their candidates chances of winning the next election. I blame the complicit media more than them though, Journalists are supposed to call **** like this out. Same team or otherwise. If they didn't have a fully complicit MSM backing them, Democrats wouldn't dare pull **** like this. It's weird, the MSM devoid of all integrity has completely turned their backs on the public and their viewers in order to push the states propaganda full time.
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    Originally Posted by LieutenantGains View Post
    Congrats republicans, you actually played yourselves.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2015/...a-rules-115068



    Your hate boner for Obama led to additional oversight measures put in place by republicans to investigate administrations... which you can tune into today to watch on CSPAN as the president of the United States, Donald John Trump, is put on trial for impeachment.

    Take your L and go home.
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    I’m not sure what that noise above has to do with my thread, which is about the dem “subpoenas” having no legal authority because they refused to hold a vote.

    The dems has nobody in contempt for defying their “subpoenas...” because they knew they had no legal backing.

    When trump went to exercise his right to executive privilege and use the courts to decide, the dems slapped him with a laughable obstruction charge.

    This is all a constructed sham supported by a compliant media. It’s easy to see through, but requires actually caring about the truth. That’s something half our country doesn’t want to do.
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    Originally Posted by rampagefc77 View Post
    I’m not sure what that noise above has to do with my thread, which is about the dem “subpoenas” having no legal authority because they refused to hold a vote.

    The dems has nobody in contempt for defying their “subpoenas...” because they knew they had no legal backing.

    When trump went to exercise his right to executive privilege and use the courts to decide, the dems slapped him with a laughable obstruction charge.

    This is all a constructed sham supported by a compliant media. It’s easy to see through, but requires actually caring about the truth. That’s something half our country doesn’t want to do.
    The people who don’t see through it don’t want to see through it. It’s as simple as that.
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  19. #19
    Registered User knightofday's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rampagefc77 View Post
    https://www.justice.gov/olc/file/1236346/download

    I said this all along, but the house subpoenas in the impeachment probe weren’t actually subpoenas because they had no legal backing. The house needs to hold a vote to establish such authority. No vote= house “subpoenas” were just mean letters.

    So the entire democrat talking point that people were defying subpoenas and obstructing their investigation was all fake.
    Bruh...EVERY Democrat talking point is fake.

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  20. #20
    Registered User knightofday's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rampagefc77 View Post
    I’m not sure what that noise above has to do with my thread, which is about the dem “subpoenas” having no legal authority because they refused to hold a vote.

    The dems has nobody in contempt for defying their “subpoenas...” because they knew they had no legal backing.

    When trump went to exercise his right to executive privilege and use the courts to decide, the dems slapped him with a laughable obstruction charge.

    This is all a constructed sham supported by a compliant media. It’s easy to see through, but requires actually caring about the truth. That’s something half our country doesn’t want to do.
    Also, the media isnt simple compliant. It is quite literally the propaganda arm of the Democrat Party, there are on orginization. That is a fact.
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  21. #21
    Registered User semitope's Avatar
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    You guys are aware that the DOJ has been acting like trumps personal law firm, right? Not that it matters. He's not a democrat so this rings no alarms.

    Its sad how partisanship destroys countries. You have no idea how damaging this will be. YOu will hope a democrat president won't be as bad.... but you might not be so lucky. Wholesale rejection of congressional oversight is a new and important step towards a dictatorship. Keep supporting it. Because its too repulsive to allow the truth to come out regardless of whether or not you think he's innocent.

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  22. #22
    Trolling the trolls...... dabbmw2002's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by semitope View Post
    You guys are aware that the DOJ has been acting like trumps personal law firm, right? Not that it matters. He's not a democrat so this rings no alarms.
    did you read the opinion? Regardless of the DOJ's leaning or the leanings you perceive it to have, they make a compelling case.
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  23. #23
    Registered User semitope's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dabbmw2002 View Post
    did you read the opinion? Regardless of the DOJ's leaning or the leanings you perceive it to have, they make a compelling case.
    what was the case? that the house needed to vote first? did the white house cooperate after they did vote?

    additionally, the damn executive doesn't tell congress how to go about its business. Congress decides if it votes or not, what the rules are etc. You people are ridiculous. So partisan you would destroy your own country
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    "Scientists say" ?

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  24. #24
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    Wouldn't it be glorious that congress ended up getting impeached (or whatever their version of it is) all because they had TDS?
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  25. #25
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    Originally Posted by semitope View Post
    what was the case? that the house needed to vote first? did the white house cooperate after they did vote?
    Congress didn't want to wait for the courts to rule so they jammed the articles through with no evidence nor mention of statute that had been violated.
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  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by semitope View Post
    You guys are aware that the DOJ has been acting like trumps personal law firm, right? Not that it matters. He's not a democrat so this rings no alarms.

    Its sad how partisanship destroys countries. You have no idea how damaging this will be. YOu will hope a democrat president won't be as bad.... but you might not be so lucky. Wholesale rejection of congressional oversight is a new and important step towards a dictatorship. Keep supporting it. Because its too repulsive to allow the truth to come out regardless of whether or not you think he's innocent.

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    Lol at you of all people claiming partisanship destroys countries. Your out on the fuking front lines calling everyone that doesn't agree with you tards.

    ALL the house had to do is vote to authorise impeachment inquiry and the subpoenas would have been valid.
    Trump would have claimed executive privilege.
    House would have challenged it in court.
    The court would have determined what was and wasn't executive privilege.

    IF TRUMP THEN REFUSED TO PLAY. Obstruction would be valid.

    They didn't play by rules and your side doesn't care.
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  27. #27
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    Originally Posted by Austanian View Post
    Lol at you of all people claiming partisanship destroys countries. Your out on the fuking front lines calling everyone that doesn't agree with you tards.

    ALL the house had to do is vote to authorise impeachment inquiry and the subpoenas would have been valid.
    Trump would have claimed executive privilege.
    House would have challenged it in court.
    The court would have determined what was and wasn't executive privilege.

    IF TRUMP THEN REFUSED TO PLAY. Obstruction would be valid.

    They didn't play by rules and your side doesn't care.
    Not sure why this is so hard to understand. This has played out before and there was precedent for the chain of events yet the house chose to ignore that and as a result passed a completely partisan impeachment (the first ever).
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  28. #28
    Pale/gross rise21's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by semitope View Post
    You guys are aware that the DOJ has been acting like trumps personal law firm, right? Not that it matters. He's not a democrat so this rings no alarms.

    Its sad how partisanship destroys countries. You have no idea how damaging this will be. YOu will hope a democrat president won't be as bad.... but you might not be so lucky. Wholesale rejection of congressional oversight is a new and important step towards a dictatorship. Keep supporting it. Because its too repulsive to allow the truth to come out regardless of whether or not you think he's innocent.

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    It’s not a new step at all though.

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/9-times...fore-congress/
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  29. #29
    Registered User semitope's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chaunce54 View Post
    Congress didn't want to wait for the courts to rule so they jammed the articles through with no evidence nor mention of statute that had been violated.
    Trumps administration said the courts have no business in disputes between congress and the executive. And the house does not have to wait when its about impeachment. They have sole authority in this matter according the constitution you people hate so much.

    Nothing you people say has any damn value. Because you subhuman filth would be saying the opposite if this was a democrat. All you can do is think in terms of which party you're affiliated with and how to defend them. Disgusting. When you no longer have any concept of right and wrong independent of the relevant agent involved.

    Originally Posted by rise21 View Post
    It’s not a new step at all though.

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/9-times...fore-congress/
    yeah. it happens. but even in the solyndra and Fast and furious cases (the most serious ones), thousands of documents were provided. The black panther case was overblown https://www.jacksonville.com/article...news/801247696. one was some social media foolishness etc. Most administrations cooperate and there were plenty of investigations during the Obama administration that were allowed to continue with only specific objections. Documents were provided along with emails in all of those cases.
    Last edited by semitope; 01-21-2020 at 10:20 AM.
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  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by semitope View Post
    Trumps administration said the courts have no business in disputes between congress and the executive. And the house does not have to wait when its about impeachment. They have sole authority in this matter according the constitution you people hate so much.

    Nothing you people say has any damn value. Because you subhuman filth would be saying the opposite if this was a democrat. All you can do is think in terms of which party you're affiliated with and how to defend them. Disgusting. When you no longer have any concept of right and wrong independent of the relevant agent involved.
    Blah blah blah.

    The courts are oversight for Congress like Congress is oversight on the President...
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