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    What's destroying the middle class?

    https://www.delawareonline.com/story...lass/70452222/

    "Neither side really wants to blame China. The right generally represents business interests and capital owners who have made a lot of money off of China, and hope to make a lot more. The left is afraid to go against the free-trade orthodoxy that has dominated postwar American economic thinking, and also fears a potential cold war with China.

    But there’s just one problem: The evidence may point to least favored answer being the right one."
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    nothing is.


    I've seen about 50 headlines from the MSM in the last 9 months, with some form of things suck for the middle class.

    The same people that gave the BS line all year that we are going into a recession any day now.

    It's BS


    The middle class is doing just fine
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    Dad gachase21's Avatar
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    Democrats peddle doom, but the middle class never had it so good

    These days, when you listen to the gloom of the media and many of the presidential candidates, you have to wonder what country these Debbie Downers are talking about.

    Former Vice President Joe Biden recently declared, "The middle class is getting crushed. And the working class has no way up."

    Sen. Bernie Sanders stews that President Donald Trump's policies have brought "handouts for billionaires and hunger for the poor."

    Mayor Pete Buttigieg claims that many working families are struggling so much financially they don't have enough income to be able to "afford a two-bedroom apartment."

    The Washington Post says that Americans are awash in debt they can't repay.

    Time out for a dose of reality. If things are so bad, how is it that a new poll from CNN -- hardly a network friendly to Trump -- finds three of four Americans rate the economy as pretty good or really good.

    We have become so rich as a nation that even most poor families can buy dolls and baseball bats and $100 Nike basketball shoes for their kids, as well as cellphones that have more computing power than every computer used to put a man on the moon.

    It is nonsense to say the poor and the middle class are worse off than they were 20 or 30 or 50 years ago.

    Go to any neighborhood Walmart or Target, and you will see average and even low-income Americans -- blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, teenagers, mothers with three kids, and seniors -- filing out of the store with sometimes two or three shopping carts overflowing with toasters, winter coats, flowers, games, dog food, stuffed animals, potato chips, video games and every conceivable piece of merchandise -- all stuffed in the back of the minivan.

    The rich are doing better for sure. Our wealth as a nation has now topped $100 trillion, and the rich have a big slice of that. But over half of all Americans own stock through 401(k) plans and other retirement savings. When the Dow Jones rises by 10,000 points in three years, it isn't just Warren Buffett who feels the wealth effect.

    This past year, median family income adjusted for inflation rose to $66,000 for the first time ever. Think about that. In 90% of the world, an income of $66,000 is rich, rich, rich. The average household income in China -- which is our major challenger for global supremacy -- is less than $15,000. That's less than one-fourth of the level in America. There is an old saying that is true now more than ever: If you have to be poor, America is a good place to be poor.

    For all of the constant talk about stagnant wages for the middle class since the 1970s, the average middle-income household today has access to technology, entertainment, household appliances and health care that even rich people couldn't buy in the 1960s. The folks at The Heritage Foundation have found that even poor families today are more likely to have access to things like air conditioning, dishwashers, televisions and laptop computers than middle class families did 50 years ago. These are the dividends from our free market capitalist economy.

    As our old friend Arthur Laffer wisely reminds us, people don't work to pay taxes. They work and earn income so they can buy things -- for themselves and for others. And we are doing just that. Barron's just reported another blockbuster Christmas shopping season. So much for all the gibberish a few months ago about a recession. We are all spending more -- because we have more.

    Yes, of course, I know money can't buy love or happiness. But let's face it: More money is a lot better than too little. Prosperity is a wonderful thing.
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    Two years of lower taxes: Higher pay, more jobs and a better tax code

    The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act became the law of the land two years ago. It represents the largest overhaul of the U.S. tax system since the Reagan presidency — a longtime goal for Republicans.

    This tax reform came with a lot of promises, like higher economic growth, a simpler code, lower rates for middle-class families and restored American competitiveness on the global stage. Two years in, every one of those promises has been kept. The United States’ economy is reenergized and on stronger footing thanks in large part to this landmark legislation.

    A record of success

    The most obvious benefit of the tax cuts is increased take-home pay. A family of four making the median annual income in our country had their taxes reduced by $2,058. A single parent with one child and an annual income of $41,000 had their bill reduced by $1,304. All in all, 90 percent of workers are keeping a larger share of their money today than they were before December 2017.

    During the past two years, wages have surged particularly for low-income earners and those without high school diplomas. According to new data from the Council of Economic Advisors, earnings have grown faster among rank-and-file workers than managers. Additionally, wealth has grown at a higher rate for low-income Americans than the top one percent.

    This good news directly benefits Mississippians. At a House Small Business Committee hearing, a grocer from Woodville reported that the law has allowed him to upgrade and replace equipment and provide employees with raises. Shipbuilders on the Gulf Coast saw bonuses and larger contributions to their pensions. More than 100 areas in Mississippi are now “opportunity zones,” attracting private investment from outside sources to communities in need. An opportunity zone in Claiborne County alone could attract up to 1,000 construction jobs.

    Tax reform has also helped our country become a net exporter of petroleum. The law opened up 2,000 acres in Alaska for responsible oil and gas development. More American energy means more jobs, a stronger economy and less reliance on foreign and potentially hostile sources of oil and gas.

    Under our nation’s old tax code, our businesses were at an international disadvantage. America’s corporate tax rate was 35 percent, higher than any other in the developed world. The reduction to a 21 percent rate was followed by an increase in U.S. business investment, which has helped fuel our economic resurgence.

    The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act implemented a lot of new, good ideas. It also repealed burdensome rules and regulations, including the individual mandate in Obamacare. Under that failed provision, people who could not afford or did not choose to purchase Obamacare’s increasingly expensive plans were punished again with a new tax. This burden hurt low-income Americans more than any other group and the repeal is a much-needed relief.

    Pro-Growth policies work

    The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act’s success shows that pro-growth polices work. Unlike proposals to give more power to Washington, tax cuts restore decision making back to individuals. In doing so, they empower all Americans and help people and families across this country achieve their economic potential.

    Today the American economy has powerful momentum and there is every reason to be optimistic about the future.
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  6. #6
    Md, Misc, Old-Brah SillieBazzillie's Avatar
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    That is without a doubt, one of the worst "articles" you've ever posted.

    The middle class are getting left behind and now two people are required to work to provide the same lifestyle one used to be able to.

    Early AM workout crew.
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    Md, Misc, Old-Brah SillieBazzillie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BuckNakedinBama View Post
    lol what a misleading chart. Of course, now households have 2 earners instead of one.
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    That is without a doubt, one of the worst "articles" you've ever posted.

    The middle class are getting left behind and now two people are required to work to provide the same lifestyle one used to be able to.

    [img]https://www.advisorperspectives.comhttps://forum.bodybuilding.com/images/content_image/data/ee/eefe7a6432416a3c5688a36e40758fcf.png[img]
    TFW you're in the top quintile on sole income based on hard work alone and have to listen to liberals online tell us it's impossible to move up in life.

    PS. What're you thoughts on importing millions of low wage illegal/legal immigrants yearly and how it affects the lower half of American citizen earners?

    Thanks!
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    TAMM·E Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Right wing policies have sold out the middle class. They are the party of big business and capitalists and wear it with a badge of honour. Scumbags like McConnell couldn’t care less that all the manufacturing jobs are gone because of free trade deals. He’s almost dead and got plenty rich from it.

    Republicans are about individual responsibility and so be it if there is blatant inequality. Their policies help the richest get richer while cutting any assistance to the poor and middle class.

    The democrats are the party of the middle and working class and poor. Their policies are designed to help the middle class and the poor get on their feet to become contributing members of society. That’s also why they believe in taxing the wealthiest for redistribution and support unions.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    The democrats are the party of the poor. Their policies are designed to keep a permanent underclass who continuously vote Democrat because they rely on big government.
    FIFY

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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    Right wing policies have sold out the middle class. They are the party of big business and capitalists and wear it with a badge of honour. Scumbags like McConnell couldn’t care less that all the manufacturing jobs are gone because of free trade deals. He’s almost dead and got plenty rich from it.

    Republicans are about individual responsibility and so be it if there is blatant inequality. Their policies help the richest get richer while cutting any assistance to the poor and middle class.

    The democrats are the party of the middle and working class and poor. Their policies are designed to help the middle class and the poor get on their feet to become contributing members of society. That’s also why they believe in taxing the wealthiest for redistribution and support unions.
    big difference between supporting social programs = socialist/leftist and supporting the middle class.
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    lol what a misleading chart. Of course, now households have 2 earners instead of one.

    why you try to petty us bish wine, here is the article from that graph he posted.


    https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/yes-t...afford-a-home/



    Here is the reality , day by day the middle class lifestyle is pretty f'ing awesome

    And the miniature problems they think they have is 1st world problems.


    The days of 2 household was going to end from globalization and modernization, it was inevitable.


    Transportation advancement, communication, information available,


    When you realize just how globalized we have become in the last 40 years and think about how well the US has help up with quality of life, its amazing.

    The brunt of that transition was the 80's


    And in the last 5-6 years, the direction we've headed and the results we have now.....


    If you don't feel pretty good about lifestyle in the middle class you are doing something wrong.



    And to think we could have avoided that globalization while still remaining relevant, just lol
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    lol what a misleading chart. Of course, now households have 2 earners instead of one.
    This is a legit point

    Does the chart reflect that?
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    Dad gachase21's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post

    The democrats are the party of the middle and working class and poor.
    Why are Democrats pretending the economy is bad for the working class?

    Democratic presidential candidates need you to hate the economy. Their problem is that the economy is really good.

    “The president wants us to think the economy is doing great,” Pete Buttigieg said in Sioux City on Thursday night, “because the Dow Jones is up. But not a lot of that seems to be getting to our kitchen tables.”

    It is probably true that not a lot of American families have large piles of money on their kitchen tables. That’s because most people, aside from mafiosi, don’t put their money in piles on kitchen tables.

    What Buttigieg means is that middle-class and working-class families aren’t reaping the benefits of a growing stock market and a rising GDP — that all this wealth is going only to the wealthy. “A lot of that growth,” Buttigieg claimed at a campaign rally in Sioux City, “isn’t getting to most of us.”

    In the December Democratic debate, Buttigieg made the same claim. “This economy is not working for most of us, for the middle class.”

    Tom Steyer is hitting the same theme with radio ads he’s running in Iowa. Steyer argues that he can beat Trump “on the economy” by promising to bring about economic growth “for everyone, and not just the 1%.”

    It’s a compelling populist message that the current economic boom is not lifting up the regular guy. The only problem is that it’s not true. The working class is indeed reaping the gains of the Trump-era economy, and in fact, more than anyone else. Since 2016, wages have grown far faster for the lowest 25% of earners than for everyone else, according to data from the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta.

    Unemployment is at an astonishingly low 3.5% (2.6% in Iowa), meaning that many of the people who struggled the most a decade ago — those out of work — now have jobs. Inflation has averaged less than 2% a year over the past four years. That’s an economy that’s good for the poor and the middle class.

    So Buttigieg and Steyer are pinning their candidacies on frustration over the blue-collar and middle-class economy at a time when the blue-collar and middle-class economy is actually doing really, really well. This seems politically unwise. Why try to run against a problem that doesn’t exist? Won’t the doom-and-gloom message sound irrelevant or out of touch?

    It’s possible that Steyer, Buttigieg, and the others are simply behind the times — that they haven’t refreshed their taking points to go with the new economic situation. It’s also possible that they know what they’re doing and that this is just a primary-season bankshot.

    That is, when Buttigieg talks about working-class woes, he isn’t appealing to the working class. He is appealing to upper-middle-class white liberals who want to feel like they are helping the working class with their votes. At the same time, he’s appealing to the retired or late-career baby boomers who, having passed their professional peak, aren’t reaping the fruits of the booming job market.

    So while bad-mouthing the working man’s condition may be counterproductive in a general election, where a Democrat needs to do better than Hillary Clinton did among the working class, the message can work in the Iowa and New Hampshire nominating contests, where retired or near-retired baby boomers will make up a huge chunk of the voters.

    “If you go to the grocery stores, our groceries go up all the time,” Colleen Chaussee, a retired bank employee told me after Buttigieg’s rally in Sioux City. She and her husband John, a retired school teacher, have seen their Social Security check increase only $15 a month. “Is that really going to change the quality of your life?” she asked.

    The Chaussees’ experience is a very different one from that of Robert, a truck driver I met at Sioux City’s Marto Brewing Company on Thursday night. Robert gets as much work as he wants, and more, and he’s raking in the bucks. When he visits working-class towns, he checks out the job market and finds them booming. He had just come up from Dodge City, Kansas, where the meat-packing plants are desperate for workers. “Their lowest paying job is $18 an hour,” Robert said.

    Middle-class and working-class Americans have employers fighting over them.

    Marsha, who runs the Radio Shack in Orange City, Iowa, complained about her difficulty in hiring workers. “It’s really hard to find good people,” Marsha said. “We’ve been looking for somebody part-time here for the last six months.”

    There are “a lot of really good jobs, the manufacturing jobs around here,” Mark Muilenberg, a doctor in Orange City said. “Most of the businesses around here, they’d hire 25, 30 more people today if they could, because unemployment is so low.”

    That’s tough for employers. It’s great news for the working man — even if the politicians don’t want to hear it.
    https://www.aei.org/op-eds/why-are-d...working-class/
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    Originally Posted by MiamiLife305 View Post
    This is a legit point

    Does the chart reflect that?
    No it household


    see prior post 12
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    Originally Posted by Ephedra View Post
    TFW you're in the top quintile on sole income based on hard work alone and have to listen to liberals online tell us it's impossible to move up in life.

    PS. What're you thoughts on importing millions of low wage illegal/legal immigrants yearly and how it affects the lower half of American citizen earners?

    Thanks!
    The US labor force is 160M so a couple of million over decades ain't gonna impact it that much tbh.

    Corporations are the ones who have failed the middle class.
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    Globalism. You're competing against 3rd worlds wages in sweat shops.
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    The US labor force is 160M so a couple of million over decades ain't gonna impact it that much tbh.

    Corporations are the ones who have failed the middle class.
    Just a couple million legal/illegal immigrants over the decades? Thought you were educated...

    Must be strange living in the eastern white suburbs and thinking you know what's happening in the real world.
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    That is without a doubt, one of the worst "articles" you've ever posted.

    The middle class are getting left behind and now two people are required to work to provide the same lifestyle one used to be able to.

    When you look at purchasing power based on CPI it's even more dire, almost no change at all in the past 50+ years:



    This is despite real GDP increasing like 500% in that same period.

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    Originally Posted by Ephedra View Post
    Just a couple million legal/illegal immigrants over the decades? Thought you were educated...

    Must be strange living in the eastern white suburbs and thinking you know what's happening in the real world.
    How many do you think there are? And the east coast runs the world boyo, we are the real world.

    Say 10 million working age illegals over that 30 years, I'd say it would likely have a slight depressive impact, but even now with supposed labor shortages, wages haven't really budgeted. So no, the fault does not lie with illegals, it lies with corporations who do whatever they can to pay as little as they possibly can. This point is indisputable.
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    In the law of supply/demand for labor, right now the middle class worker is in the drives seat with all the leverage.

    People can literally get an Income that wish at will as long as they know how to apply for it

    TALENT DEFICIT: EMPLOYERS STRUGGLE TO FIND BOTH LOW, MIDDLE SKILL WORKERS AS WELL AS HIGHLY SKILLED

    The Tacoma, Washington-based staffing provider surveyed nearly 1,500 managers and found that:

    -32% can’t find workers to fill low-skill positions (those that may or may not require a high school diploma and require little to no experience).

    -46% can’t find workers for middle-skill jobs (those that typically require some experience and continuing education but don’t necessarily require a four-year college degree).

    -35% can’t find workers for high-skill jobs (those that require a four-year degree or higher).
    https://www2.staffingindustry.com/si...-skilled-52146





    Manufacturers struggle to find employees

    Manufacturing ranks as one of the largest employment sectors in Yamhill County. As of late, many local manufacturing companies have been trying to fill positions. It turns out, there are a number of reasons why that’s harder to accomplish than it may seem.

    One reason is a low unemployment rate, under 4 percent according to Will Summers, a workforce analyst for Linn, Marion, Polk and Yamhill counties.

    Scott Cooper, the executive director of McMinnville Economic Development Partnership said, “when the economy is good, people are employed, and that makes the labor market tough.”

    He said he knows of a couple of companies that are each looking for as many as 20 new hires.

    “That doesn’t sound like a lot, but to a company who needs those 20 people to increase their business to serve their customers, the lack of that labor pool affects their business,” Cooper said.

    Brandon Malloy, senior staffing consultant at Express Employment Professionals, an organization that matches employees to jobs, said there simply are more job openings than people to fill them in the manufacturing industry.

    “I probably have five clients who have endless openings,” Malloy said. “So if you walk through the door and you match the requirements, I can keep sending people. That’s how many people they need.”

    Despite increased focus on trade work in schools, there is still a deficit of skilled labor in the area, Summers said. Younger people don’t always have enough exposure to the type of work required.

    Deven Paola, president of Solid Form Fabrications, said his company has grown about 25 percent this year.

    “Construction seems to be going strong,” Paola said.

    He said most of Solid Form’s recent hires have been young people, those straight out of high school or trade school programs.

    Still, Paola said, “there’s been a big gap of skilled trade.”

    With high school trade programs being reinvigorated, and having training programs of their own, the manufacturing sector is starting to see some slow change.

    “I think people are realizing that maybe the college path isn’t right for everyone,” Paola said.

    MEDP has two programs in place to help change the workforce issue. McMinnville WORKS and the Career Bound program are both internships that prepare young people for jobs.

    McMinnville WORKS places college students in summer jobs to build their skill set in their desired field. Career Bound places graduating high school seniors who may not want to go to college, in manufacturing jobs to learn skills.

    Cooper said these programs were created as a response to the need for skilled workers.

    “This is not an issue that is solely McMinnville’s or Oregon’s,” Cooper said. “It’s a national issue.”


    cont....
    https://newsregister.com/article?art...r-savvy-senior



    U.S. manufacturers struggling to find workers turning to high schools

    LEOPOLD, Ind., Dec. 4 (UPI) -- Across America, manufacturing companies in desperate need of skilled labor are turning to a previously untapped pool -- high school students.

    The quickly growing trend is especially prevalent in Midwestern states where, though manufacturing is strong, companies are struggling to hire enough workers to maintain production levels.

    "The skills gap is real," said Ashley Chatham, a spokeswoman for Toyota, which has 10 plants in the United States, mostly in the Midwest and South.

    A report released this year by the Manufacturing Institute estimates 2.4 million manufacturing jobs will go unfilled in the next decade. The most difficult to fill are skilled jobs -- digital positions and advanced production. Because of technological advancements in the industry, many of these positions require different kinds of training than traditional manufacturing.

    The workforce shortage is hampering manufacturers' growth, and, as it continues, many worry it will cause businesses to shrink.

    "Job shortages are not new to manufacturing, especially in recent years," the report said. "What is new to the talent shortage discussion is many manufacturers' expectation that the situation is about to get much worse."

    But the news is not all bad. The grim statistics spell opportunity for workers in many rural communities -- and some of the first to recognize this are school officials.


    cont....
    https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018...7841543589283/


    Nearly 90% of manufacturing companies struggle to fill jobs

    -Almost 90% of manufacturing companies — 98% of which are small businesses — cannot fill all available jobs, data compiled by SCORE showed. The entrepreneurship mentoring network found more than three-quarters of these companies have less than 20 employees. Despite their small natures, manufacturing businesses generated 11.6% of the country's economic output and employed 8.5% of the workforce last year, SCORE said.

    -The industry's difficulties in hiring could stem from shifts in the skills sets required due to advancing tech, the mass exodus of baby boomers from employment and a misconception about manufacturing jobs overall, SCORE said.

    -Small manufacturing businesses encompass a host of sectors, from handmade industries like bakeries to highly sophisticated machine-made goods, according to SCORE's data. More than 50% of the sector includes apparel, furniture and fabricated metal products.

    Dive Insight:
    With more than 400,000 jobs currently open and an anticipated 4 million to fill in the next 10 years, manufacturers are struggling to find talent. Turnover in manufacturing is at an all-time high, especially as baby boomers continue to age out of the workforce.

    Even as more advanced manufacturing facilities geared toward upskilling open, collaboration will be needed to train the workforce of the future. Employers can partner with government entities, educators and non-profits to foster upskilling and work-preparedness. One Connecticut facility, for example, trains high school students to use advanced manufacturing tools.

    As for developing technology, some research has indicated it will recreate jobs, rather than eclipse them. Employers will need to leverage technologies like AI and machine learning to continuously retrain and upskill current employees.
    https://www.hrdive.com/news/nearly-9...l-jobs/555580/



    Heck even taco bell...

    Taco Bell will begin offering a $100,000 salary for the general managers of certain company-owned locations later this year.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/taco...k-leave-2020-1
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    Originally Posted by gachase21 View Post
    In the law of supply/demand for labor, right now the middle class worker is in the drives seat with all the leverage.

    People can literally get an Income that wish at will as long as they know how to apply for it


    https://www2.staffingindustry.com/si...-skilled-52146







    https://newsregister.com/article?art...r-savvy-senior




    https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018...7841543589283/




    https://www.hrdive.com/news/nearly-9...l-jobs/555580/



    Heck even taco bell...



    https://www.businessinsider.com/taco...k-leave-2020-1
    All that and wage growth barely above inflation. With the main driver of real growth being liberal increases to the minimum wage.

    And if manufacturing is doing so well, why exactly are we in a manufacturing recession and GDP can't approach 3%?
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    It's also funny watching Republicans cite the same headline economic numbers they told us was fake news during Obama's years, to tell us how amazing the economy is currently doing.

    Almost all of the jobs created since 2005 are low hours, short term gig and contract type work:

    https://dataspace.princeton.eduhttps://forum.bodybuilding.com/jspu...b933/3/603.pdf

    And a newly developed indicator that measures the quality of jobs in the market finds they have been on a constant, decades long decline:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevede.../#233c39542d97

    https://qz.com/1752676/the-job-quali...-been-missing/

    Essentially we're seeing more and more low paid, low hours jobs that offer little to nothing in the way of employment benefits and are insecure, short term positions. This saves corporations billions in labour costs, and is going to accelerate as more of the capital becomes automated.

    Hence why financial insecurity among the middle class is so high, debt levels are soaring and people are turning to things like high interest online loans to try and make ends meet. Hence also why the majority of people receiving benefits like SNAP are actually in employment, just stuck in one of these ****ty meme-tier jobs.

    Of course there are lots of other concerning statistics, such as the soaring levels of suicides and drug overdoses and a multiple year long decline in life expectancy for the first time since the Spanish Flu.

    Tl;dr the Trump economy is fake as ****, just like the Obama economy before it.
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    It's also funny watching Republicans cite the same headline economic numbers they told us was fake news during Obama's years, to tell us how amazing the economy is currently doing.

    Almost all of the jobs created since 2005 are low hours, short term gig and contract type work:

    https://dataspace.princeton.eduhttps://forum.bodybuilding.com/jspu...b933/3/603.pdf

    And a newly developed indicator that measures the quality of jobs in the market finds they have been on a constant, decades long decline:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevede.../#233c39542d97

    https://qz.com/1752676/the-job-quali...-been-missing/

    Essentially we're seeing more and more low paid, low hours jobs that offer little to nothing in the way of employment benefits and are insecure, short term positions. This saves corporations billions in labour costs, and is going to accelerate as more of the capital becomes automated.

    Hence why financial insecurity among the middle class is so high, debt levels are soaring and people are turning to things like high interest online loans to try and make ends meet.

    Of course there are lots of other concerning statistics, such as the soaring levels of suicides and drug overdoses and a multiple year long decline in life expectancy for the first time since the Spanish Flu.
    Naturally life expectancy goes down on Trump's watch. Should make a campaign ad out of it.
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    Naturally life expectancy goes down on Trump's watch. Should make a campaign ad out of it.
    More dead Americans means less social welfare burden, the system works as intended!
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post



    This is despite real GDP increasing like 500% in that same period.
    I won't even bother with posting alternative data to this, because its pointless and futile

    Comparing economic conditions and realities from periods greater than 30-40 years is complete bunk and you know it.

    And especially comparing the reality of our currency to then, - It's just about an entire different system now.
    It's apples to oranges.

    You just look at the general living condition of the middle class from the now, and how much more chit we actually buy, and can can buy , on a weekly and yearly basis.

    Part of the problem with us having to much waste.....

    anecdotal evidence: My grandparents threw out about 1 trash bag a week.
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    Originally Posted by gachase21 View Post
    I won't even bother with posting alternative data to this, because its pointless and futile

    Comparing economic conditions and realities from periods greater than 30-40 years is complete bunk and you know it.

    And especially comparing the reality of our currency to then, - It's just about an entire different system now.
    It's apples to oranges.

    You just look at the general living condition of the middle class from the now, and how much more chit we actually buy, and can can buy , on a weekly and yearly basis.

    Part of the problem with us having to much waste.....

    anecdotal evidence: My grandparents threw out about 1 trash bag a week.
    Now we can't compare economic data through time? You better notify the experts boyo.
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    How many do you think there are? And the east coast runs the world boyo, we are the real world.

    Say 10 million working age illegals over that 30 years, I'd say it would likely have a slight depressive impact, but even now with supposed labor shortages, wages haven't really budgeted. So no, the fault does not lie with illegals, it lies with corporations who do whatever they can to pay as little as they possibly can. This point is indisputable.
    Legal immigration depresses wages too. Most immigrants aren't doctors and lawyers.

    The population in 1990 was 250 million. Now it is over 330 million. Considering the declining birthrates among native born Americans, where do you think a good bulk of those 70 million people came from?

    That isn't even counting the illegals, which we don't even have an accurate number on.
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    Originally Posted by FatBallz View Post
    Legal immigration depresses wages too. Most immigrants aren't doctors and lawyers.

    The population in 1990 was 250 million. Now it is over 330 million. Considering the declining birthrates among native born Americans, where do you think a good bulk of those 70 million people came from?

    That isn't even counting the illegals, which we don't even have an accurate number on.
    I've never seen any data to corroborate this at all. The studies/meta-analyses that examine this, even the ones done by anti-immigration leaning economists like Borjas, find little to no long term wage suppression from immigration:

    https://wol.iza.org/uploads/articles...ve-workers.pdf

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

    This remains true when studied across various different countries around the world including the US.

    Immigration is the usual scapegoat by Republicans who've never looked into this topic but the evidence for it being the cause of the stagnating middle class is so far, fairly non existent.
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