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  1. #1
    Registered User SwagenGTI's Avatar
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    Bro split recommendations?

    So I have spent years bulking/cutting doing Strong lifts and 531. I feel like I have just gone in circles to be honest. I have certainly gained a little muscle but based on the amount of time spent, I can't say that I am happy. I am kind of tired of doing the same compound lift based workouts and they also take me way too long.

    I would like to try something new. In other words, I am interested in trying a typical bro split program. Anyone have any program recommendations? Please don't just tel me to do Fierce Five haha.

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SwagenGTI View Post
    So I have spent years bulking/cutting doing Strong lifts and 531. I feel like I have just gone in circles to be honest. I have certainly gained a little muscle but based on the amount of time spent, I can't say that I am happy. I am kind of tired of doing the same compound lift based workouts and they also take me way too long.

    I would like to try something new. In other words, I am interested in trying a typical bro split program. Anyone have any program recommendations? Please don't just tel me to do Fierce Five haha.

    Thanks!
    I'm a bit confused as to how your workouts are taking too long if they're compound lift-based? One of the best things about compound lifts is they are efficient. If you want to provide the same stimulus with isolation lifts you'll need to spend much more time in the gym.
    Age: 35
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    Weight: 75.8kg (167lb)

    Personal best lifts
    Bench - 5 x 57.5kg (127lb), 9 x 52.5kg (116lb)
    Front squat - 5 x 60kg (132lb), 11 x 50kg (110lb)
    Back squat - 5 x 67.5kg (149lb)
    RDL - 8 x 95kg (209lb), 13 x 67.5kg (149lb)
    Deadlift - 5 x 85kg (187lb), 9 x 80kg (176lb)
    Overhead Press - 5 x 40kg (88lb)
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  3. #3
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    MON: Chest
    TUES: Back (optional)
    WED: Arms
    THURS: Legs (optional)
    FRI: Shoulders (optional)
    SAT/SUN: Rest

    On each day, do exercises for that muscle group until you can't do any more.

    Seriously though, while ppl often debate which setup is best, you can build muscle on any routine (whether you're doing a bro split, F5, etc.). What has been your typical workouts the past few years?

    If you've been working out for years, have just gone in circles and your workouts take way too long, you've likely been approaching both your routines, diet and bulking/cutting in the wrong way. You're welcome to change to a bro split, but you should also focus on your overall approach if you expect things to change.
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    proud I'm Johnny's niece etet1919's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    I'm a bit confused as to how your workouts are taking too long if they're compound lift-based? One of the best things about compound lifts is they are efficient. If you want to provide the same stimulus with isolation lifts you'll need to spend much more time in the gym.
    You only need to spend about an hour a day, anywhere between 4-6 days a week, on the weights, with a typical bro split. And, 98% of the training consists of compound exercises (generally speaking). Many people doing bro splits also tackle some form of cardio, at least a few times a week. That's why the duration of the training/regimen is longer. But, you don't have to necessarily do cardio immediately after the weights...although, many do!

    As a general rule, you just need to group together certain muscle groups (i.e.; back/bis; legs/abs; chest/bis; delts/tris..), and try to hit them repeatedly every third or forth day. But you should, typically, take a rest day, after every third or forth consecutive training day... This is just one aspect of where bro splits can get tricky, because you need to be able to determine when you truly need rest, or whether you'd be better off pushing through the fatigue. So, experienced lifters become efficient at (intuitively) knowing what they can handle. When you begin on a bro split, you'll generally be able to recover faster and stick to that 2x week (ish) momentum.
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    Registered User George2100's Avatar
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    Chest
    Back
    Off
    Legs
    Shoulders/upper traps
    Arms
    Off
    Repeat
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    Registered User SwagenGTI's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    I'm a bit confused as to how your workouts are taking too long if they're compound lift-based? One of the best things about compound lifts is they are efficient. If you want to provide the same stimulus with isolation lifts you'll need to spend much more time in the gym.
    A lot of it is just from warming up. Three or so compound lifts in the same day requires me (maybe it's just me) to do several warm up sets, and after resting, each set ends up taking me like 15-20 min a piece at least. Plus I have been doing extra isolation lifts after the compound lifts.
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  7. #7
    proud I'm Johnny's niece etet1919's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SwagenGTI View Post
    A lot of it is just from warming up. Three or so compound lifts in the same day requires me (maybe it's just me) to do several warm up sets, and after resting, each set ends up taking me like 15-20 min a piece at least. Plus I have been doing extra isolation lifts after the compound lifts.
    I'm afraid to ask, but what the hell are you doing? Why does it take 15 minutes to recover from a set?
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  8. #8
    Registered User TheAthlete1992's Avatar
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    Here is an easy 4 Day split with lower volume that uses a lot of intensity. I follow Paul Carter on Instagram and have put a lot of what he says into my training and I have been really enjoying it.

    50% Set
    https://www.t-nation.com/training/ti...0-percent-sets

    Rest Pause Set: Do your working set to failure, Rest 20 seconds, then do another to failure, rest another 20 seconds and do a last set to failure.
    10-6-10 Method
    https://www.t-nation.com/training/th...ethod-for-size

    350 Method
    https://www.t-nation.com/training/ti...he-3-50-method

    Aim for 1-3 warmup sets per muscle group (personal preference) Then do one working set using one of these intensity protocols. Rep range can be 6-15 I guess.

    Legs
    Seated Hamstring Curl
    Hack Squat
    Leg Press
    Dumbbell RDL
    Standing Calf Raise

    Chest & Triceps
    Hammer Strength Chest Press
    Incline Dumbbell Press
    Cable fly
    Seated Tricep Dips
    Rope Pushdowns

    Back & Biceps
    Hammer Strength One Arm Row
    Pulldown or Pull up
    Chest Supported Row
    Barbell Bicep Curl
    Cable Curl

    Shoulders
    Hammer Strength Shoulder Press
    Cable Lateral Raise
    Cable Rear Delt Fly or Facepull
    Plate shoulder Raise (bring overhead)
    Dumbbell Lateral Raise

    Do some cardio whenever you want, and if you want to do abs feel free.
    I am not a personal trainer, just a gym bro.
    STRETCH.LIFT.SPRINT
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  9. #9
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by etet1919 View Post
    I'm afraid to ask, but what the hell are you doing? Why does it take 15 minutes to recover from a set?
    I assumed he meant 15-20 mins per exercise - and for 4-5 sets of squats or deadlifts that's totally fine.
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    Personal best lifts
    Bench - 5 x 57.5kg (127lb), 9 x 52.5kg (116lb)
    Front squat - 5 x 60kg (132lb), 11 x 50kg (110lb)
    Back squat - 5 x 67.5kg (149lb)
    RDL - 8 x 95kg (209lb), 13 x 67.5kg (149lb)
    Deadlift - 5 x 85kg (187lb), 9 x 80kg (176lb)
    Overhead Press - 5 x 40kg (88lb)
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  10. #10
    proud I'm Johnny's niece etet1919's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    I assumed he meant 15-20 mins per exercise - and for 4-5 sets of squats or deadlifts that's totally fine.

    That's not what he wrote though. He wrote "each set ends up taking me like 15-20 minutes a piece at least." I guess people have to be very specific about what they really mean here
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  11. #11
    WOATbrah of peace :) sooby's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by etet1919 View Post
    I'm afraid to ask, but what the hell are you doing? Why does it take 15 minutes to recover from a set?
    this, not sure how this is possible
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  12. #12
    proud I'm Johnny's niece etet1919's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sooby View Post
    this, not sure how this is possible

    Welcome back, sooby!! How are you doing? Doing your powerlifting, I see! Good to have you back.
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    No help for this one.... Squid24's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SwagenGTI View Post
    each set ends up taking me like 15-20 min a piece at least.
    Is this a srs statement?

    There is now way this can even happen....
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    Originally Posted by Squid24 View Post
    Is this a srs statement?

    There is now way this can even happen....
    Clarence Kennedy does lol.

    But I doubt OP is squatting 600+ atg

    Points to 'the athlete' for at least coming close to a program, everyone before him is just posting random exercises and muscle groups and calling it programming.....

    OP programming for a bro split is no different to a full body or upper lower, you decide your goals, you either work out how long you want a cycle to run for, or autoregulate it based off when your top sets regress. You work out how much volume and at what intensity (number of hard sets for example to simplify our example) you need per lift or body part a week and then split that efficiently (or however you choose) across the week, across however many days you select to train a week.

    Exercise selection should be one of the last steps... Though people always seem to think its all there is.

    Examples

    I'm going to autoregulate my cycle lengths, I am able to effectively train 5 days, though 1 of these may need to be shorter.. I'm going to favour quads and chest initially.

    Sets,
    Quads 16
    Chest, 18
    Hams, 12
    Back, 14
    Glutes, 8
    Shoulders, 10

    Full body
    Day 1,
    squats, top set of 6, 3 down sets of 6
    Bench ^
    Db bench similar but 10s

    And so on

    Upper lower
    Day 1,
    4 sets bench variation
    3 sets of heavier rows
    4 sets incline bench
    3 sets pull down
    Rear delt flies

    Bro split
    Day 1
    5 sets bench
    5 sets incline dB bench
    4 sets hammer strength press
    4 sets cable flies
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    PUSH/PULL/LEGS or Fullbody Workouts.
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    The one thing that always gets lost in the bro split non sense is progression. I swear these guys always forget to add weight and just pump and fluff around the gym for hours.
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    No help for this one.... Squid24's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adamgentile View Post
    PUSH/PULL/LEGS or Fullbody Workouts.
    You didn't say F5 variations...lmao
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    MON: Chest
    TUES: Back (optional)
    WED: Arms
    THURS: Legs (optional)
    FRI: Shoulders (optional)
    SAT/SUN: Rest
    So you're saying it's chest and arms? Everything else is optional. I get it.
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    So you're saying it's chest and arms? Everything else is optional. I get it.
    I think I can do that one...
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    Originally Posted by Squid24 View Post
    I think I can do that one...
    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    So you're saying it's chest and arms? Everything else is optional. I get it.
    Noone has time for that.

    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    MON: Chest (not optional unless it falls on any other day but a Monday)
    TUES: Back (optional)
    WED: Arms (optional)
    THURS: Legs (never)
    FRI: Shoulders (optional)
    SAT/SUN: Rest
    I can handle that.
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  21. #21
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    So you're saying it's chest and arms? Everything else is optional. I get it.
    While there are ppl on this forum (and this thread) who take bro splits seriously and make it work for them, many ppl I see in the gym over the years do the chest/arms bro split (sometimes shoulders too). And Monday is always chest.

    For beginners, aside from not being optimal IMO, I think it tends to lead to bad habits, allocating volume inappropriately, and repeatedly missing entire muscle groups.
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    Originally Posted by etet1919 View Post
    I'm afraid to ask, but what the hell are you doing? Why does it take 15 minutes to recover from a set?
    Haha, sorry I meant for each exercise. So if I were to dead lift say 5x5 for example. I'd do 2 or 3 quick warm up sets before getting to the working sets. A few min between sets and it adds up pretty quick.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    The one thing that always gets lost in the bro split non sense is progression. I swear these guys always forget to add weight and just pump and fluff around the gym for hours.

    Not me! I don't train for pumping and fluffing I'm not a bro, and every lift I do is, based on the strength standard tables (there's a few), within the top category(s)..."competitive" at regional levels, for some instances. But then again, I'm only 115 lbs.... It may be harder to accomplish at, say, 200 lbs!
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    I don't see anything wrong with it, bro split may be suitable for you to break monotony and change the stimulus.
    you can do a push/pull/legs; chest-back/legs/shoulders-arms, etc.
    After you decided your training split every wo should be composed by:
    -1 or 2 fundamentals (bench press,deadlifts,squat,pull ups,military press, barbell row)
    -1 or 2 compound exercises
    -some isolation exercises for the pump

    A typical bro wo could be this:

    Monday (chest-shoulders-triceps)
    -bench press 4x6 (3' rest)
    -45° dumbbell bench press 3x8 (90")
    -dips 3x8 (90")
    -cable flys 3x10 (45")
    -military press 4x6 (120")
    -single arm low cable lateral raises 3x12 (one arm at a time,no rest)
    -shoulder width grip bench press 4x6 (120")
    -pushdown 3x8 (90")
    -kickback 2x12(45")

    wednesday (legs)
    -squat 5x5 (3')
    -leg press 4x8 (2')
    -lunges 4x8 (90")
    -leg extension 3x10 (one leg at a time no rest)
    -good morning 4x8 (90")
    -leg curl 3x10 (60")
    -standing calf raises 4x10 (60")
    -sitting calf machine 3x12 (30")

    friday (back biceps traps)
    -deadlift 5x5 (3')
    -pullups 4x6 (2')
    -barbell row 4x6 (')
    -pulldown 2x12 (45")
    -shrugs 4x6 (2')
    -90° lateral raises 4x12 (one arm at a time, no rest)
    -burbell curl 4x6 (2')
    -30° dumbbell curl 3x10 (1')
    -scott machine ez curl 3x12 (1')

    This is a very common brosplit training for an intermidiate guy.
    Volume is not too heavy and there are no intensity techniques.
    Every wo should last around 90'.
    English is not my first language
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    No help for this one.... Squid24's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    The one thing that always gets lost in the bro split non sense is progression. I swear these guys always forget to add weight and just pump and fluff around the gym for hours.
    Bingo
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    Originally Posted by FurtadoZ9 View Post
    Bingo
    I know quite a few big BBs. They have progressed in both strength and muscle mass, at their own individual rate, over the years. That's how they became developed...they were able to add progressive overload (infamous term) to their regimen. It dosen't mean this style of training is superior, inferior, efficient or feasible for anyone in particular. It's just one method out of many...
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    Originally Posted by etet1919 View Post
    I know quite a few big BBs. They have progressed in both strength and muscle mass, at their own individual rate, over the years. That's how they became developed...they were able to add progressive overload (infamous term) to their regimen. It dosen't mean this style of training is superior, inferior, efficient or feasible for anyone in particular. It's just one method out of many...
    Agreed

    Progressive overload is generally revered as additional weight (or reps). I think if an exercise is done with a 3/1/3/1 tempo, then the following week done with a 4/1/3/1 tempo, I'd consider that progress

    Or a slew of exercises blocked in a 2-4 week phase. As long as they are returned to at some frequency and improved upon consistently.
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