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    Registered User fpessoa7's Avatar
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    Distributing protein intake over several meals vs. intermittent fasting

    On the one hand I'm reading that the best approach to increase lean mass is to distribute protein intakes in several meals across the day (4-6), with about 0.4g/kg protein per meal. On the other hand I'm reading that intermittent fasting (eating all the daily calories on a 4 or 8 window span) also achieves this goal. Is there any evidence that suggests one is better than the other?
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    Originally Posted by fpessoa7 View Post
    On the one hand I'm reading that the best approach to increase lean mass is to distribute protein intakes in several meals across the day (4-6), with about 0.4g/kg protein per meal. On the other hand I'm reading that intermittent fasting (eating all the daily calories on a 4 or 8 window span) also achieves this goal. Is there any evidence that suggests one is better than the other?
    IF is not ideal for muscle gain.

    Meals spaced out every ~4 hours that contain sufficient protein is best.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    IF is not ideal for muscle gain.

    Meals spaced out every ~4 hours that contain sufficient protein is best.
    Random question that popped into my head.

    Any studied difference between splitting protein feedings into say, 7-8 separate servings every 2 hours or so apart with smaller portions vs. ~30-40g every 4 hours that you know of? Would be a weird style of eating, but curious.

    I presume a certain amount of amino acids need to be present in the bloodstream every so often to maximize MPS if you are wanting to be optimal. Just curious if a steady stream of lower amounts constantly throughout the day would have any positive or negative effect in comparison, surely very very minimal.
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    Originally Posted by fpessoa7 View Post
    On the one hand I'm reading that the best approach to increase lean mass is to distribute protein intakes in several meals across the day (4-6), with about 0.4g/kg protein per meal. On the other hand I'm reading that intermittent fasting (eating all the daily calories on a 4 or 8 window span) also achieves this goal. Is there any evidence that suggests one is better than the other?
    Achieves what goal? Building muscle most effectively? If so, where did you read that IF achieves that?

    IF is a fat-loss strategy, not a muscle-building strategy.
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    Originally Posted by Nicksosure1 View Post
    Any studied difference between splitting protein feedings into say, 7-8 separate servings every 2 hours or so apart with smaller portions vs. ~30-40g every 4 hours that you know of? Would be a weird style of eating, but curious.
    There's one that comes kind of close. The study used whey. 10 grams every 1.5 hour vs. 20 gram every 3 hours vs. 40 gram every 6 hours.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23459753
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    There's one that comes kind of close. The study used whey. 10 grams every 1.5 hour vs. 20 gram every 3 hours vs. 40 gram every 6 hours.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23459753
    Nice. Thank ya
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    Registered User fpessoa7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    IF is not ideal for muscle gain.

    Meals spaced out every ~4 hours that contain sufficient protein is best.
    Originally Posted by rtpmarine View Post
    Achieves what goal? Building muscle most effectively? If so, where did you read that IF achieves that?

    IF is a fat-loss strategy, not a muscle-building strategy.
    The "Meal Frequency" bit of study PMC4033492 (can't paste link). Evidence-based recommendations for natural bodybuilding contest preparation: nutrition and supplementation

    In particular:

    However, the majority of chronic experimental studies have failed to show that different meal frequencies have different influences on bodyweight or body composition [104-108]. Of particular interest is the research examining the latter, since the preservation of muscle mass during fat loss is a paramount concern in the pre-contest phase. A recent review by Varady [109] examined 11 daily caloric restriction (CR) studies and 7 intermittent calorie restriction (ICR) studies. CR involved a linear consumption of 15-60% of baseline needs every day, while ICR alternated ad libitum ‘feed’ days with ‘fast’ days involving partial or total food intake restriction. It was concluded that although both types have similar effects on total bodyweight reduction, ICR has thus far been more effective for retaining lean mass.

    Also: Soeters MR, Lammers NM, Dubbelhuis PF, Ackermans M, Jonkers-Schuitema CF, Fliers E, Sauerwein HP, Aerts JM, Serlie MJ. Intermittent fasting does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism
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    Originally Posted by fpessoa7 View Post
    The "Meal Frequency" bit of study PMC4033492 (can't paste link). Evidence-based recommendations for natural bodybuilding contest preparation: nutrition and supplementation

    In particular:

    However, the majority of chronic experimental studies have failed to show that different meal frequencies have different influences on bodyweight or body composition [104-108]. Of particular interest is the research examining the latter, since the preservation of muscle mass during fat loss is a paramount concern in the pre-contest phase. A recent review by Varady [109] examined 11 daily caloric restriction (CR) studies and 7 intermittent calorie restriction (ICR) studies. CR involved a linear consumption of 15-60% of baseline needs every day, while ICR alternated ad libitum ‘feed’ days with ‘fast’ days involving partial or total food intake restriction. It was concluded that although both types have similar effects on total bodyweight reduction, ICR has thus far been more effective for retaining lean mass.

    Also: Soeters MR, Lammers NM, Dubbelhuis PF, Ackermans M, Jonkers-Schuitema CF, Fliers E, Sauerwein HP, Aerts JM, Serlie MJ. Intermittent fasting does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism
    This has to with preservation of muscle mass, not its increase. I practice IF but I can't see a reasonable mechanism by IF is equal to spaced feeding for maximum MPS.
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    Originally Posted by fpessoa7 View Post
    The "Meal Frequency" bit of study PMC4033492 (can't paste link). Evidence-based recommendations for natural bodybuilding contest preparation: nutrition and supplementation

    In particular:

    However, the majority of chronic experimental studies have failed to show that different meal frequencies have different influences on bodyweight or body composition [104-108]. Of particular interest is the research examining the latter, since the preservation of muscle mass during fat loss is a paramount concern in the pre-contest phase. A recent review by Varady [109] examined 11 daily caloric restriction (CR) studies and 7 intermittent calorie restriction (ICR) studies. CR involved a linear consumption of 15-60% of baseline needs every day, while ICR alternated ad libitum ‘feed’ days with ‘fast’ days involving partial or total food intake restriction. It was concluded that although both types have similar effects on total bodyweight reduction, ICR has thus far been more effective for retaining lean mass.

    Also: Soeters MR, Lammers NM, Dubbelhuis PF, Ackermans M, Jonkers-Schuitema CF, Fliers E, Sauerwein HP, Aerts JM, Serlie MJ. Intermittent fasting does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism
    Selective quoting for the win. Most of those studies used BIA (sucks!) and none of those studies used resistance trained athletes. This is mentioned in the full text.

    Suggested reading: https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-018-0215-1

    Based on the current evidence, we conclude that to maximize anabolism one should consume protein at a target intake of 0.4 g/kg/meal across a minimum of four meals in order to reach a minimum of 1.6 g/kg/day. Using the upper daily intake of 2.2 g/kg/day reported in the literature spread out over the same four meals would necessitate a maximum of 0.55 g/kg/meal.
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    I don’t think it matters too much. I only eat twice a day and still make gains good enough for my liking. Perhaps I would make better gains eating more frequently; however, I simply prefer to eat a snack during the day and eat massive amounts of food at night.
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    Originally Posted by Nicksosure1 View Post
    Random question that popped into my head.

    Any studied difference between splitting protein feedings into say, 7-8 separate servings every 2 hours or so apart with smaller portions vs. ~30-40g every 4 hours that you know of? Would be a weird style of eating, but curious.

    I presume a certain amount of amino acids need to be present in the bloodstream every so often to maximize MPS if you are wanting to be optimal. Just curious if a steady stream of lower amounts constantly throughout the day would have any positive or negative effect in comparison, surely very very minimal.
    I know from personal anecdote that I made my best gains eating 25g every 2-3 hours in highschool like 7-8 times per day. Don't know if it was from increased meal frequency or just newbie gains
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    Summarized from the abstract at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23459753 [Timing and distribution of protein ingestion during prolonged recovery from resistance exercise alters myofibrillar protein synthesis., Exercise Metabolism Group, Health Innovations Research Institute, School of Medical Sciences, RMIT University, Melbourne, Australia.]

    -

    Myofibrillar protein synthesis (MPS) stimulation in trained males for 12 hours post exercise was found to have the effects as following:

    20g protein every 3 hours was superior to: A) 10 g every 1.5 hours and B) 40g every 6 hours. (FOR A TOTAL OF 80G PROTEIN IN EACH CASE)
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