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  1. #1
    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    end private education

    education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

    if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

    bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

    in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

    if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

    bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

    in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
    Depends on what you mean by education. Trade schools are a form of education, should they only be public also?
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

    if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

    bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

    in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
    Can you first give us a definition of the word "right"?
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  4. #4
    No Agony, No Bragony JUSA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

    if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

    bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

    in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
    I'm sure they'd find some loopholes, but I like the sentiment you have here, if nothing else. Would love it to see some actor like Matt Damon who promotes public schools as being great (and send their kids to private schools) have to actually walk the walk.

    Still, want to fix it? A good step would be abolishing the Dept of Education. Public schools have gotten exponentially worse as that dept has grown, also exponentially.
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    While a novel idea on paper, the very small percentage of American youth in private schools wouldn't change public school quality if you all of sudden put them there.

    My ex-spouse is an administrator and long time teacher in the public school system. The #1 reason why a student fails or succeeds is directly proportional to parental involvement in their kids education. Far too many parents look at schools as cheap daycare. Whether they're worthless scumbags leeching off the system or two income households the results are largely the same.
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    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    Can you first give us a definition of the word "right"?
    right = something desired by the people and afforded to the people by the social contract of government. the military is a good example. the american people are afforded a military defense as a right of citizenship.

    just swap "military defense" with those other things
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    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rise21 View Post
    Depends on what you mean by education. Trade schools are a form of education, should they only be public also?
    good question. dunno. maybe there should be some exceptions? not sure!

    do trade schools suffer the same problems as more traditional preschool, k-12, uni and grad schools?
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    Funding is not going to just make public education better. Is Newark significantly better off after Zuckerberg donated all that money? The reason private schools provide better education is because they need to PROVE their value. When they don't, their applications drop and then their funding/revenue. If public schools have no accountability because they constantly keep getting funding, what will keep them improving? The case study has been done right in front of our eyes too. Public and private schools have existed for, we will call it, the same amount time. Which one provides a better education and why do you think that is the case? The response is money. Difference is one has to earn theirs and the other doesn't.
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    Registered User Qong's Avatar
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    Public schools are garbage. It isn't a money issue. Here we spend something ridiculous, tens of thousands of dollars per student, and 3 quarters of them can't do simple math or read. Public school is terrible.
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    good question. dunno. maybe there should be some exceptions? not sure!

    do trade schools suffer the same problems as more traditional preschool, k-12, uni and grad schools?
    I can’t answer that question, my fancy book learning leaves me unqualified.
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  11. #11
    Platinum User chaunce54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

    if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

    bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

    in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
    It's my right to keep and bear arms. That doesn't mean the government is obligated to provide them for me. I don't think you have clear understanding of what rights are and what the government's role is.
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  12. #12
    Registered User cashinout's Avatar
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    but who was freedom of association?
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  13. #13
    Registered User cashinout's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rise21 View Post
    Depends on what you mean by education. Trade schools are a form of education, should they only be public also?
    in OP's utopia, your dad will be thrown in jail if he teaches you how to fish
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  14. #14
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    How very communist of you OP. Should private property be outlawed too?

    The problem isn't lack of funding - it's the student's home life
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    Originally Posted by chaunce54 View Post
    It's my right to keep and bear arms. That doesn't mean the government is obligated to provide them for me. I don't think you have clear understanding of what rights are and what the government's role is.
    Rights are whatever the **** society chooses them to be and has a governance structure capable of enforcing, and it's as simple as that. Rights are meaningless outside of this context.

    For example you have a right to legal representation, which imposes a duty on someone else (a lawyer in this case, provided by the government if you are poor). Would you however claim that we actually don't have a right to legal representation?
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    Op is ignorant,, just like in the healthcare thread. Everything is based off feels. Still hasn't read an economics 101 book on competition and supply and demand. He loves monopolies and high costs
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  17. #17
    Registered User cashinout's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    Rights are whatever the **** society chooses them to be and has a governance structure capable of enforcing, and it's as simple as that. Rights are meaningless outside of this context.

    For example you have a right to legal representation, which imposes a duty on someone else (a lawyer in this case, provided by the government if you are poor). Would you however claim that we actually don't have a right to legal representation?
    dangerous and despicable point of view

    the whole point of the founding of the USA was to move away from this collectivist mindset
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    Originally Posted by cashinout View Post
    dangerous and despicable point of view

    the whole point of the founding of the USA was to move away from this collectivist mindset
    http://volokh.com/2013/05/07/positiv...-libertarians/

    I'd read this article to remind yourself of how little you actually understand about either rights as a concept or specific US legislature. Report back to me anytime
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    http://volokh.com/2013/05/07/positiv...-libertarians/

    I'd read this article to remind yourself of how little you actually understand about either rights as a concept or specific US legislature. Report back to me anytime
    I don't have to read chit

    in American culture, rights are inherent and inalienable, not given by the government so take your commie UK statist BS to someone who cares
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    http://volokh.com/2013/05/07/positiv...-libertarians/

    I'd read this article to remind yourself of how little you actually understand about either rights as a concept or specific US legislature. Report back to me anytime
    Everyone here understands rights. You should take your own advice and actually think things through.

    My rights are God given, natural if you don't happen to believe in God. They aren't granted by anyone and they will be enforced by me if the government isn't there to secure them or tries to infringe on them.
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    right = something desired by the people and afforded to the people by the social contract of government. the military is a good example. the american people are afforded a military defense as a right of citizenship.

    just swap "military defense" with those other things
    If you have to ask for it, it's not a right. It may be a concession, a service, a gift... not a right.
    So to rephrase your post, you really really really want education, military, police, roads and healthcare to be government monopoly. And your motivation for it is: rich phukers can send their kids to private schools while the rest of us has to send them to chitty public schools, so all schools should be public. That is all schools should be chitty? Sounds like a good plan OP I can tell you thought this one carefully.
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    I went to private school. Not the fancy schools you are thinking, but a small one. My parents worked really hard to send me because they didn't want me in public school.
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    Originally Posted by cashinout View Post
    I don't have to read chit

    in American culture, rights are inherent and inalienable, not given by the government so take your commie UK statist BS to someone who cares
    That's not actually how the numerous different forms of legal rights in US law or any law are grounded. It's not surprising for someone who doesn't understand US law to be confused here though so I'm not holding it against you, just hoping you'll try and grasp it better.


    Originally Posted by Qong View Post
    Everyone here understands rights. You should take your own advice and actually think things through.

    My rights are God given, natural if you don't happen to believe in God. They aren't granted by anyone and they will be enforced by me if the government isn't there to secure them or tries to infringe on them.
    Outside of the context of a society with rights and a governance structure to enforce them, you don't have a right to anything my friend.

    If you are strong and well armed enough to protect your property, then good for you. If someone stronger and better armed than you hurts you and takes your property, then it's tough **** for you. There is no entity you can stand in front of to claim you had a right to that property and expect it to be delivered back to you. For all purposes, the property is now theirs. The concept of a right in such a context is meaningless air.

    So as I said, rights are whatever society chooses them to be and is then capable of enforcing. Take the right to legal representation as an easy example that refutes your entire premise.
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    This thread had about as much thought put into it as Wincels.
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    Public or private...the real problem is indoctrination in these schools. The teachers can no longer leave their opinions out of it. Hire a liberal teacher and that's what they teach their students. Of course there are exceptions but it's far more likely than not likely anymore...
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

    if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

    bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

    in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this

    So you wanna hold down everyone successful because you're jealous of their success? Stereotypical lib logic. Sorry, private education isn't going anywhere. My kids will go to some of the best schools in the country while yours end up working at Starbucks with a liberal arts degree.



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    why so we can have more garbage inner city schools, and no kid gets ahead?

    how can u have a right to education? how the fuk does that work?

    education requires someone to teach u...what if nobody wanted to teach? would u enslave ppl and force them to teach? we bringin slavery back bro?

    this was the danger of the civil rights act btw...ur essentially forcing ppl to work for ppl they don't want to work for...that ain't freedom bro

    nobody should be forced to try to teach the spawn of gangbangers...period
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    Sounds like a great way to raise taxes on the middle class. Why do you hate America?
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

    if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

    bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

    in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
    No thanks, socialism doesnt work
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    why so we can have more garbage inner city schools, and no kid gets ahead?

    how can u have a right to education? how the fuk does that work?

    education requires someone to teach u...what if nobody wanted to teach? would u enslave ppl and force them to teach? we bringin slavery back bro?

    this was the danger of the civil rights act btw...ur essentially forcing ppl to work for ppl they don't want to work for...that ain't freedom bro

    nobody should be forced to try to teach the spawn of gangbangers...period
    You can have a right to anything that society deems worthy of making a right and is capable of enforcing, simply put. As an easy example that I've already stated ITT, all of us have a right to legal representation regardless of how economically deprived a person might be.

    Well legal representation requires another person's (or multiple peoples') time and labour and commitment. Yet it's a recognised right everywhere and I don't think anyone has any issue with that, it'd be an awful society where that wasn't the case.

    So yeah the idea that rights are just a small handful of strictly negative concepts like the right to life or self defense or free speech, neither makes much sense in the abstract nor is how the law actually works.
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