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  1. #1
    Registered User MikeLowrrrey's Avatar
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    Are the horsepower wars slowing down anytime soon? Doesn't seem to be

    https://www.automobilemag.com/news/d...ore-sema-2019/


    Dodge's Charger (and its Challenger sibling) are nothing if not poster children for the so-called "halo effect." The top-level SRT Hellcat versions of each full-size car deliver well over 700 horsepower, but look pretty similar to the base-level, six-cylinder rental-grade models that cost less than half as much—can you guess why, then, Dodge sells so many of those entry-level models? The debut of SpeedKore Performance Group's widebody, all-wheel-drive, twin-turbocharged Charger at the SEMA aftermarket show in Las Vegas widens the Dodge sedan's halo even further.

    You might have noticed a few things about the Charger don't seem quite right—namely that Dodge doesn't offer the Charger with all-wheel drive and any of its more powerful V-8 engine options, and no factory Charger is turbocharged. Of course not, because SpeedKore Performance Group is a tuner. The Wisconsin-based shop instead has built this Charger for a loyal customer, who commissioned the car for his similarly Mopar-fanatical brother. SpeedKore added the four-wheel-drive setup, and swapped in the epic Demon drag car's supercharged 6.2-liter V-8 engine—SpeedKore has also worked over a Demon in the past—before removing the blower and installing two Precision 6466 ball-bearing turbochargers in its place.
    From the showroom, the 2018 Dodge Challenger SRT Demon's engine, which differs slightly from the Hellcat V-8s offered more regularly throughout the Charger and Challenger lineups, made 808 horsepower on pump gas and 840 on race fuel. With a new "triple pump" fuel system and 1700-cc fuel injectors, along with a custom intake and heads, the newly twin-turbocharged Demon V-8 is said to have pushed out 1525 horsepower on an early dyno run.
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  2. #2
    RN and vette crew 1QWIK7's Avatar
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    That's not a production car though lol. Just a modified version of a car you can get (if you can because they're rare).

    Unfortunately we are at the very PEAK of all this amazing HP to technology ratio in these amazing cars. Enjoy them.

    Because in 2024 is when the mandated for stricter emissions that's going to prevent these types of things. That's why almost every manufacturer is getting rid of the V8's for turbo 4's and 6's. And from there it's going to be get downsized again for even better fuel economy/low emissions. Then after that we're going to see a chit ton of EV's on the road. Probably 75% of all cars on the road will be EV by the year 2050.

    Enjoy the fun now. Try to pick your absolute favorite car and just buy it and hold onto it. Because before you know it, we won't have them. You can only get them in a used market.
    Schooling everyone that has to do with automotive one brah at a time. It's tiring but someone gotta do it lol


    I have a manual car but auto IS WAY BETTER THESE DAYS. ACCEPT THE FACTS BRAHS! LOL
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    Registered User Halfway's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 1QWIK7 View Post
    That's not a production car though lol. Just a modified version of a car you can get (if you can because they're rare).

    Unfortunately we are at the very PEAK of all this amazing HP to technology ratio in these amazing cars. Enjoy them.

    Because in 2024 is when the mandated for stricter emissions that's going to prevent these types of things. That's why almost every manufacturer is getting rid of the V8's for turbo 4's and 6's. And from there it's going to be get downsized again for even better fuel economy/low emissions. Then after that we're going to see a chit ton of EV's on the road. Probably 75% of all cars on the road will be EV by the year 2050.

    Enjoy the fun now. Try to pick your absolute favorite car and just buy it and hold onto it. Because before you know it, we won't have them. You can only get them in a used market.
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    Registered User hendrixfreak70's Avatar
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    I want to breed my 6th Gen SS with a Demon. Anyone want to bump uglies with me?
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    RN and vette crew 1QWIK7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    I wanna cry too lol. But you figure if some predictions are right, meaning the magic year 2050 and when all the EV's take over, i'll be almost 70. So i couldn't give a phuck less if there's no more fun. Because i'll be old, probably crippled, bald, and just hating life anyway lmao.

    But yeah i definitely want to have my fun now. That's why i always laugh at people who drive chitty cars. Like why? there's so many amazing cars out there, drive those. Not chitty torqueless 4cyls and chit lmao.
    Schooling everyone that has to do with automotive one brah at a time. It's tiring but someone gotta do it lol


    I have a manual car but auto IS WAY BETTER THESE DAYS. ACCEPT THE FACTS BRAHS! LOL
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    Registered User MikeLowrrrey's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 1QWIK7 View Post
    That's not a production car though lol. Just a modified version of a car you can get (if you can because they're rare).

    Unfortunately we are at the very PEAK of all this amazing HP to technology ratio in these amazing cars. Enjoy them.

    Because in 2024 is when the mandated for stricter emissions that's going to prevent these types of things. That's why almost every manufacturer is getting rid of the V8's for turbo 4's and 6's. And from there it's going to be get downsized again for even better fuel economy/low emissions. Then after that we're going to see a chit ton of EV's on the road. Probably 75% of all cars on the road will be EV by the year 2050.

    Enjoy the fun now. Try to pick your absolute favorite car and just buy it and hold onto it. Because before you know it, we won't have them. You can only get them in a used market.
    I imagine used V8s will be around for another 50 years easy

    The great news is, unlike out elders in the 70s, we know what these cars will be worth. Hang onto your Mustangs, Chargers, Camaros, Challengers, BMW, AMG, etc.

    Worse case scenario I'll build a car
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    Registered User Halfway's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 1QWIK7 View Post
    I wanna cry too lol. But you figure if some predictions are right, meaning the magic year 2050 and when all the EV's take over, i'll be almost 70. So i couldn't give a phuck less if there's no more fun. Because i'll be old, probably crippled, bald, and just hating life anyway lmao.

    But yeah i definitely want to have my fun now. That's why i always laugh at people who drive chitty cars. Like why? there's so many amazing cars out there, drive those. Not chitty torqueless 4cyls and chit lmao.
    I can understand the soys and gen zs being legitimately against fun cars because they're retarded/brainwashed but its tragic that there are so many idiot voters out there who like cars but have no idea that they're voting to kill anything that isnt a self driving smart car

    Literally noone I know IRL knew about the 55 mpg limit that trump rolled back
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    RN and vette crew 1QWIK7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    I can understand the soys and gen zs being legitimately against fun cars because they're retarded/brainwashed but its tragic that there are so many idiot voters out there who like cars but have no idea that they're voting to kill anything that isnt a self driving smart car

    Literally noone I know IRL knew about the 55 mpg limit that trump rolled back

    Reps on recharge btw.

    I agree, but also, we can't do anything about it. It's the inevitable. No matter who gets voted in next year. Manufacturers see this as innovation and evolution. Even though the auto industry, from an aftermarket standpoint, is a billion dollar industry, the thought of how to make the "future" better is what is a priority to them. I'm pretty sure they don't care for car enthusiasts. Because just like everything else in life, you have to adapt.

    If and when EV's take over, we'll all be old. So there's no need to be sad. We can only be sad that there soon won't be any NEW amazing HP for us to buy at that point. We can only bask in what's being offered now. And then as time goes on, dip into the used market and find what we would've, could've and should've gotten, now in present time.

    Like OP said, all these amazing machines will always be for sale, as a used product. So we'll always have access to it. But i also believe as time does move on, so will stricter rules on even driving them. IE: limiting to 3000 miles per year, registered as a "show car" type of deal etc.

    Enjoy the toys now.
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    Registered User swoleyo's Avatar
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    I don't know why everyone thinks EV's are going to be the end of the horsepower wars. It's a lot easier to make big power with a EV vs ICE.


    The biggest threat are soyboy cucks in congress trying to get rid of cars all together with "smart/driver-less" cars. Would rather have some dystopian future vs soyboy future with no car driving.
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    Registered User Beararms's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by swoleyo View Post
    I don't know why everyone thinks EV's are going to be the end of the horsepower wars. It's a lot easier to make big power with a EV vs ICE.


    The biggest threat are soyboy cucks in congress trying to get rid of cars all together with "smart/driver-less" cars. Would rather have some dystopian future vs soyboy future with no car driving.

    EV's have no soul
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    it's getting ridiculous, I get that the increased power will help with track times but as the hp goes up that's essentially less of the car you'll be able to drive in day to day occurrences. People buy 800 hp cars and can't drive more than 50km/hr over or 1/4th of the throttle without endangering the world around you. It's why miata's and s2000s are so popular. And those high hp cars are heavy af too.
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    RN and vette crew 1QWIK7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    it's getting ridiculous, I get that the increased power will help with track times but as the hp goes up that's essentially less of the car you'll be able to drive in day to day occurrences. People buy 800 hp cars and can't drive more than 50km/hr over or 1/4th of the throttle without endangering the world around you. It's why miata's and s2000s are so popular. And those high hp cars are heavy af too.
    When i had my ninja 250, i had, as a whole, more fun than my Gix600 and R1. Why? Because there's more room for error. You can wind out each gear and never pass the speed limit. But that does get boring too. Speed creates adrenaline. And slow cars don't give you that.

    A 17 second car can get you in trouble, when you go WOT. So should we start driving those?

    No, we get fast cars because that's what's available. It's not so much about reaching top speed or anything like that, it's the time it takes to reach a certain mph when you wanna go fast.

    For instance if someone drove a honda, or a wrx etc, it will take them forever to get to 100mph. That's A LOT of time in between, that something could happen, before they eventually hit 100mph.

    When i take my car out, i can hit triple digits instantly. In almost no time, then i can slow down to normal speeds, faster than a slow car can even reach triple digits.

    It's the rush fast cars brings us. Has nothing to do with being or not being able to take these cars to the limits. On the street or the track etc.
    Schooling everyone that has to do with automotive one brah at a time. It's tiring but someone gotta do it lol


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    Registered User Halfway's Avatar
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    I just wish we had more advanced AWD for american muscle, but it's likely a long term nightmare in things like the m5 where it can disengage on command

    Being able to hook with 4 tires on a modded gt, or a redeye or zl1 or z06 would have tesla owners crawling back under their bug filled rocks. Dragy has me at low 3s already to 60, but AWD would put that in the mid 2s
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    Hp wars are gonna go bonkers as electric takes over. Far more potential for high power than ICE edit: more potential while meeting regulations etc.
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    Originally Posted by 1QWIK7 View Post
    When i had my ninja 250, i had, as a whole, more fun than my Gix600 and R1. Why? Because there's more room for error. You can wind out each gear and never pass the speed limit. But that does get boring too. Speed creates adrenaline. And slow cars don't give you that.

    A 17 second car can get you in trouble, when you go WOT. So should we start driving those?

    No, we get fast cars because that's what's available. It's not so much about reaching top speed or anything like that, it's the time it takes to reach a certain mph when you wanna go fast.

    For instance if someone drove a honda, or a wrx etc, it will take them forever to get to 100mph. That's A LOT of time in between, that something could happen, before they eventually hit 100mph.

    When i take my car out, i can hit triple digits instantly. In almost no time, then i can slow down to normal speeds, faster than a slow car can even reach triple digits.

    It's the rush fast cars brings us. Has nothing to do with being or not being able to take these cars to the limits. On the street or the track etc.
    If you're going from 0-100 miles per hour on the street almost instantly that's putting others around you at risk, and most responsible drivers (and police who deal with crashes on a regular basis) would tell you to 'take it to the track'. Which sort of reinforces my point, that these cars are becoming more of track monsters and not so easily driveable on the street, almost less so since it is more power and less you can safely utilize. I completely understand the thrill accompanying high rates of speed. I guess my point though was that you can get more use and fun out of a lightweight tossable car with a manual transmission than a 700 hp beast that you have to feather the throttle on normal roads without risk of spinning out or at least encroaching onto oncoming traffic.

    My first response sort of made it seem like my opinion of these 'wars' was negative but I think they are a good thing because the competition encourages innovation.
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    RN and vette crew 1QWIK7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    I just wish we had more advanced AWD for american muscle, but it's likely a long term nightmare in things like the m5 where it can disengage on command

    Being able to hook with 4 tires on a modded gt, or a redeye or zl1 or z06 would have tesla owners crawling back under their bug filled rocks. Dragy has me at low 3s already to 60, but AWD would put that in the mid 2s
    I am in no way interested nor jealous of what a tesla can do. Because i've driven one. And i know 2 people who have them. And they hate it. 1 of them is a car guy, and a tesla was just an "experiment" car, to see how it is. The only thing he likes, is ludicrous mode. And the hands free driving bullchit. Only thing about luda mode, is that your chit is drained with like 3 good pulls. Is it fast? Phuck yeah, from a dig. After 100mph it's slow as chit. And i won't even get into the quality. You hear every damn thing when you're driving. The tires, the wind, the creaking of the interior, the little sounds and notifications the car makes when it does anything. It's the worst.

    After riding in my friends almost 700awhp GTR, i get why people like AWD so much. You have so much confidence driving a car, with that much power, when it's AWD. Driving a high hp RWD is very scary.
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    #NoLivesMatter DizzySmalls's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    If you're going from 0-100 miles per hour on the street almost instantly that's putting others around you at risk, and most responsible drivers (and police who deal with crashes on a regular basis) would tell you to 'take it to the track'. Which sort of reinforces my point, that these cars are becoming more of track monsters and not so easily driveable on the street, almost less so since it is more power and less you can safely utilize. I completely understand the thrill accompanying high rates of speed. I guess my point though was that you can get more use and fun out of a lightweight tossable car with a manual transmission than a 700 hp beast that you have to feather the throttle on normal roads without risk of spinning out or at least encroaching onto oncoming traffic.

    My first response sort of made it seem like my opinion of these 'wars' was negative but I think they are a good thing because the competition encourages innovation.
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    Originally Posted by 1QWIK7 View Post
    I am in no way interested nor jealous of what a tesla can do. Because i've driven one. And i know 2 people who have them. And they hate it. 1 of them is a car guy, and a tesla was just an "experiment" car, to see how it is. The only thing he likes, is ludicrous mode. And the hands free driving bullchit. Only thing about luda mode, is that your chit is drained with like 3 good pulls. Is it fast? Phuck yeah, from a dig. After 100mph it's slow as chit. And i won't even get into the quality. You hear every damn thing when you're driving. The tires, the wind, the creaking of the interior, the little sounds and notifications the car makes when it does anything. It's the worst.

    After riding in my friends almost 700awhp GTR, i get why people like AWD so much. You have so much confidence driving a car, with that much power, when it's AWD. Driving a high hp RWD is very scary.
    some of my coworkers own model 3's, and they're all exactly the kind of people you'd expect to own Teslas. They know nothing about cars, but like to bench-race about how 'fast' their $60k bug-mobile is because of it's 0-60 time. When I tell them mine's just as fast to 60 but can hit the 1/4 a lot faster they change the subject since the only reason they bought their boring appliance was the 'fast' bragging rights
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    Originally Posted by 1QWIK7 View Post
    Probably 75% of all cars on the road will be EV by the year 2050.
    I think this is one of those 'tipping point' type technologies, where 75% might be a dramatic understatement.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it was >95% by then.
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    Im a raw horsepower kinda guy but those tesla's are stupid fast. I got a ride in my friends brand new X fully optioned out and it was legit hard to breath when he stepped on it.

    That being said I think these horsepower wars will end soon. 500-600 daily drivers and 1000hp stock cars are just impractical as hell.
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    Horsepower is meh, we need new tire technology
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    Originally Posted by Grinners View Post
    I think this is one of those 'tipping point' type technologies, where 75% might be a dramatic understatement.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it was >95% by then.
    Yeah seems to be headed this direction. Honestly it seems suuuuuper long overdue when you really think about it. Imagine in 50 years you have to try and explain the old technology to your grandkids (like your grandparents explaining having to go out and crank the engine over by hand back in the day). "Yeah Jimmy back in the day we burned fossil fuel that created small explosions that powered our vehicles to get us around places". It just sounds super low tech. Like a goddam steam locomotive. Not to bash because I like how things work currently and battery tech isn't quite there yet, but once we are closer to similar capabilities I won't hesitate to switch over. Although I think hydrogen or something else might be a better answer than straight up batteries.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    If you're going from 0-100 miles per hour on the street almost instantly that's putting others around you at risk, and most responsible drivers (and police who deal with crashes on a regular basis) would tell you to 'take it to the track'. Which sort of reinforces my point, that these cars are becoming more of track monsters and not so easily driveable on the street, almost less so since it is more power and less you can safely utilize. I completely understand the thrill accompanying high rates of speed. I guess my point though was that you can get more use and fun out of a lightweight tossable car with a manual transmission than a 700 hp beast that you have to feather the throttle on normal roads without risk of spinning out or at least encroaching onto oncoming traffic.

    My first response sort of made it seem like my opinion of these 'wars' was negative but I think they are a good thing because the competition encourages innovation.
    Ok Boomer...

    First off... Dont build a 700hp car with basic bitch suspension and Tiger Paw tires

    Second... if you cant control anything more than a Miata or S2000 then you have no business behind the wheel of anything with high HP...
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    Originally Posted by BulkingIsHard View Post
    Horsepower is meh, we need new tire technology
    Tire technology has come a LONG way with manufacturers now being able to computerize the formulas in tire compounds before they're made to determine the best grip/temperature/wear. This wasn't being done even just a few years ago. 2000whp Viper on 19" Toyo R888r street tire:

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    People have come to realize there will always be a faster, louder, and quicker car. Enjoy what you have.

    Also, for 99.9% of these cars, the HP figure is a nice dink measuring contest. High HP is mostly unusable in street trim.
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    Originally Posted by 1slo5oh View Post
    Ok Boomer...

    First off... Dont build a 700hp car with basic bitch suspension and Tiger Paw tires

    Second... if you cant control anything more than a Miata or S2000 then you have no business behind the wheel of anything with high HP...
    This.

    Plus idk what he's talking about that these cars are becoming not driveable on the street lol.

    Dodge didn't stop with the hellcat at 707hp, they made the redeye and the demon. These cars ARE capable of being street driven. You just have to not be a dumbass to drop your right foot every chance you get. You modulate it. Wait for your tires to warm up. Put the proper tire pressures. Plus there is such thing as torque management. That's why auto is the future. You can't manipulate torque, especially from lower speeds, with a manual. On a stock car.

    These cars from factory are the best we will ever see before the hp craze soon comes to an end. Cars are reliable, with lots of power, good suspension, sound proofing. Hell some cars even come with michelin pilot 4S tires. A GOOD ASS tire.

    I DO agree that having anything more than 500hp with a manual transmission is a bit risky. I know because i have a lot more than that, through the factory 7spd. And it's scary. That's why i'm not an idiot and i carefully choose when and where i go WOT. With the temps dropping, i don't even bother going more than half throttle in 1st nor 2nd. And not even 3rd. The car's gearing and torque allows me to accelerate in 4th or even 5th from 1500 or 2000rpm, and get to triple digits in seconds.

    You can't just group the subject entirely and think it's the same for all. It's not.

    A 100hp car can get your in trouble. Just as much as a 700hp car can. It's all on the driver really.
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    Originally Posted by mingrey02stg2 View Post
    Tire technology has come a LONG way with manufacturers now being able to computerize the formulas in tire compounds before they're made to determine the best grip/temperature/wear. This wasn't being done even just a few years ago. 2000whp Viper on 19" Toyo R888r street tire:

    While that is impressive, the acceleration is still limited by the laws of physics due to tire technology. It seems that around 2-3 seconds for a 0-60 is what we have been stuck at for a while, with rallycross cars unofficially holding a 1.9 s 0-60.
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    Originally Posted by BulkingIsHard View Post
    While that is impressive, the acceleration is still limited by the laws of physics due to tire technology. It seems that around 2-3 seconds for a 0-60 is what we have been stuck at for a while, with rallycross cars unofficially holding a 1.9 s 0-60.
    Not sure if SRS...

    A top fuel dragster does 0-60 is a retarded .8 seconds.. ish… and last time I checked that was on...tires...
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    Originally Posted by 1slo5oh View Post
    Not sure if SRS...

    A top fuel dragster does 0-60 is a retarded .8 seconds.. ish… and last time I checked that was on...tires...
    Think that's taking what he said a wee bit literal.

    Having a street car on standard street tires (even a nitto 555r-esque drag radial in the back) with that much HP/tq is useless and nothing more than a dyno-queen. It's cool, and ridiculously impressive, but i bet that car gets spanked by cars with 1/4 the hp on a run in outside of a sticky track and slicks.
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    Originally Posted by twovalvekid View Post
    Think that's taking what he said a wee bit literal.

    Having a street car on standard street tires (even a nitto 555r-esque drag radial in the back) with that much HP/tq is useless and nothing more than a dyno-queen. It's cool, and ridiculously impressive, but i bet that car gets spanked by cars with 1/4 the hp on a run in outside of a sticky track and slicks.
    But that's just the thing... nobody in their right mind would put a 2000hp car on "standard tires" to begin with (or at least they shouldn't unless they have a death wish or an insatiable urge to wrap a lot of money around a telephone pole). I have a 800-900+ rwhp stick car (depends on tune , pulley , & fuel im running at the time) and anything less than a ET Street R is just a smoke show on the street... standard tires aren't really an option unless you plan to just putt the car around like you're driving miss daisy to the piggy wiggly on sunday.

    I will go right back to my original post in this thread...

    Dont build a high HP car with $hit suspension and $hit tires and expect it to perform...
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