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  1. #1
    Registered User jayvictor2's Avatar
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    What's the deal with AAU and whey

    I've seen claims that AAU (amino acid utilisation) for whey is low (17%), compared to meats (32%) and eggs (49%)

    Looking further, many references to AAU lead back to the same place, which strangely enough is selling supplements purporting to be 99% at AAU. The company is called bodyhealth.

    The clear inference, as with many articles on their site doing down whey, is that whey is a waste of time.

    How does this 'science' tally with all the other intelligence on the anabolic stimulation effects and high biological value of whey. And does it make sense given whey's amino profile completeness?
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    Could you provide links to whatever you are concerned about? Per this the DIAAS score for whey is almost equivalent to egg and milk (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...84533617691244).

    It's not the total amino acids, it's the amount of leucine that seems to be most critical in stimulating muscle protein synthesis (assuming you are getting enough essential amino acids throughout your diet).
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  3. #3
    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Could you provide links to whatever you are concerned about? Per this the DIAAS score for whey is almost equivalent to egg and milk (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...84533617691244).

    It's not the total amino acids, it's the amount of leucine that seems to be most critical in stimulating muscle protein synthesis (assuming you are getting enough essential amino acids throughout your diet).
    Interested in this

    Also kind of seems to be another... In the context of a high protein diet of varied sources...
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    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Interested in this

    Also kind of seems to be another... In the context of a high protein diet of varied sources...
    Pretty much this. OP you're attempting to major in a minor. Meeting macro daily with varied sources of protein and you'll be fine.
    "I'm pretty sure your wrong, but care to elaborate..."
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  5. #5
    Registered User jayvictor2's Avatar
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    Thanks to all for taking the time to reply to my question.

    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Could you provide links to whatever you are concerned about? Per this the DIAAS score for whey is almost equivalent to egg and milk * link removed, not allowed for me *.

    It's not the total amino acids, it's the amount of leucine that seems to be most critical in stimulating muscle protein synthesis (assuming you are getting enough essential amino acids throughout your diet).
    Sadly I'm unable to post links just yet, so you would need to google this and follow the first link: "bodyhealth aau whey real story"

    Thank you for that link, interesting reading. I am not concerned about anything actually, just inviting comment if anyone actually knows the truth about these claims. My gut feel is they are dubious

    Yes I agree the anabolic effects of whey in particular seem to be tied to the leucine as a trigger.

    Originally Posted by lucia316 View Post
    Pretty much this. OP you're attempting to major in a minor. Meeting macro daily with varied sources of protein and you'll be fine.
    I'm good, been sticking to my formula for a while and it's working. I'm in no doubt about the usefulness of whey for me personally, but more interested in the facts surrounding AAU because I like to geek out on nutrition trivia.
    Last edited by jayvictor2; 08-01-2019 at 04:44 AM.
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    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jayvictor2 View Post
    I'm good, been sticking to my formula for a while and it's working. I'm in no doubt about the usefulness of whey for me personally, but more interested in the facts surrounding AAU because I like to geek out on nutrition trivia.
    Your issue here is that you're looking at the use of a specific type of protein in a vacuum. Since you eat proteins other than just whey you're worrying about things that don't matter because, in the context of a high protein diet of varied sources, protein is protein. It's all just food and macros that you can use to meet your daily needs.

    There are really only three "forumlas" that matter with regard to body comp goals.

    Formula 1 for hypertrophy:
    Caloric surplus to TDEE + Meeting macros within that goal + weight training with progressive volume + rest = hypertrophy

    Formula 2 for weight/fat loss:
    Caloric deficit to TDEE = weight/fat loss.

    How you get to that deficit is up to you. It doesn't matter.

    Formula 3 for maintaining:
    Caloric intake at TDEE + Meet macros within that caloric goal = maintenance

    The other things are so minute, if relevant at all, that you'd never know the difference.
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  7. #7
    Registered User jayvictor2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lucia316 View Post
    Your issue here is that you're looking at the use of a specific type of protein in a vacuum. Since you eat proteins other than just whey you're worrying about things that don't matter because, in the context of a high protein diet of varied sources, protein is protein. It's all just food and macros that you can use to meet your daily needs.

    There are really only three "forumlas" that matter with regard to body comp goals.

    Formula 1 for hypertrophy:
    Caloric surplus to TDEE + Meeting macros within that goal + weight training with progressive volume + rest = hypertrophy

    Formula 2 for weight/fat loss:
    Caloric deficit to TDEE = weight/fat loss.

    How you get to that deficit is up to you. It doesn't matter.

    Formula 3 for maintaining:
    Caloric intake at TDEE + Meet macros within that caloric goal = maintenance

    The other things are so minute, if relevant at all, that you'd never know the difference.
    Wow, OK I'm bad at explaining. Let me try again. I don't have an issue, I am interested if anyone has come across this notion and drawn any conclusions. I have been very successful losing weight and putting on muscle. I'm not looking for advice on how to use protein. I understand protein combining, the half life of aminos in the blood, etc. I am not looking at anything in a vacuum; I am suspicious that some people are doing this to promote a product. I am suspicious they are promoting bunk science as part of a snake oil scheme, and I am inviting comment.

    I do appreciate you taking time to try to help me though.

    Did you get a chance to find the article I'm referring to? It doesn't help I can't post links.
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    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jayvictor2 View Post
    Wow, OK I'm bad at explaining. Let me try again. I don't have an issue, I am interested if anyone has come across this notion and drawn any conclusions. I have been very successful losing weight and putting on muscle. I'm not looking for advice on how to use protein. I understand protein combining, the half life of aminos in the blood, etc. I am not looking at anything in a vacuum; I am suspicious that some people are doing this to promote a product. I am suspicious they are promoting bunk science as part of a snake oil scheme, and I am inviting comment.

    I do appreciate you taking time to try to help me though.

    Did you get a chance to find the article I'm referring to? It doesn't help I can't post links.
    I think our conclusion is that the notion is irrelevant so it's not even worth taking more time to worry about

    You're suspicious about bunk science being used to sell snake oil? Have you happened to look into bcaa recently?
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  9. #9
    Registered User jayvictor2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    I think our conclusion is that the notion is irrelevant so it's not even worth taking more time to worry about

    You're suspicious about bunk science being used to sell snake oil? Have you happened to look into bcaa recently?
    Well, that is some kind of answer, so I'll take it, thank you. I am still open to hearing a scientific critique which is specific to their claims.

    To be fair among the general advice offered by lucia316, he touches on something which to me is at the heart of a possible story here. That is, and I am paraphrasing, that he believes AAU scores are less relevant in the context of a varied set of protein sources. I also suspect this, and while I am willing to believe the numbers, I am open to the possibility the whole thing is a scam. If you look, you'll see that AAU is trademarked, and for all I know the methods in their 'science' may have obvious flaws. At the very least, I would imagine a strong bias. It would be interesting and informative to me to learn that the numbers presented are factual (even if in a 'vacuum'), because that would at least emphasise the true role and function of whey in a sensible regimen.

    I already have a sensible regimen, so once again, I am not worried, or looking for advice on what to do. I am involved in a conversation with someone in another back street of the internet. There is someone promoting this stuff who I am considering challenging about it, so this is part of my research to back up my suspicions.

    I have no idea if BCAA hype is bunk, so may well look into this. I've never felt the need to try them so haven't bothered. There are infinite cases of bunk out there, but today I am interested in this one.
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  10. #10
    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    I'll reference back to Farley in that I've not seen anything that has compelled me to worry about majoring in a minor. In this case, I can only find a couple of things on AAU and find simply that a 1-3% increase in amino acid uptake in broilers and piglets isn't likely going to make a difference worth worrying about for me or any other human. Statistical significance being met in a study != real world results or benefit.

    Further when I looked at the site and their justification of 99% amino acid utilization, I kind of chuckled in that all amino acids are utilized as your body needs them. Even more, they claimed that their magic amino acids had less than 1 calorie per gram when all others over around 4. Calling BS on that, and since, at least in the US, they don't have to report calories on free-form aminos, there is nothing holding them to those statements.

    The "studies" and references they used on their site were a joke as well. All focusing on how amino acids work and are used outside of this one study that met statistical significance regarding something that really doesn't matter that much as if you're meeting your macro, you'll get plenty of amino acids.
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  11. #11
    Registered User jayvictor2's Avatar
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    Makes sense, thanks
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    Registered User WeR66's Avatar
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    I dug up a link to a pdf of the study, in case anyone wants to take a look at it and see what limitations it may have.

    Unfortunately, since I have not posted enough in this forum, they will not allow me to post any links. Therefore, please do a search (I used Duckduckgo) for this: "Royal National Academy of Medicine of Spain, Volume CXV – 2nd issue – Madrid, 1998."

    That is the search I did, from information given in an article about the AAUs by Bodyhealth.com. It should bring up a pdf of a reprint of the study: "A Comparative, Double-blind, Triple Crossover Net Nitrogen Utilization Study Confirms the Discovery of the Master Amino Acid Pattern" by Prof. Dr. M. Lucà-Moretti.


    I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this study.

    Thanks!
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    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WeR66 View Post
    I dug up a link to a pdf of the study, in case anyone wants to take a look at it and see what limitations it may have.

    Unfortunately, since I have not posted enough in this forum, they will not allow me to post any links. Therefore, please do a search (I used Duckduckgo) for this: "Royal National Academy of Medicine of Spain, Volume CXV – 2nd issue – Madrid, 1998."

    That is the search I did, from information given in an article about the AAUs by Bodyhealth.com. It should bring up a pdf of a reprint of the study: "A Comparative, Double-blind, Triple Crossover Net Nitrogen Utilization Study Confirms the Discovery of the Master Amino Acid Pattern" by Prof. Dr. M. Lucà-Moretti.


    I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this study.

    Thanks!
    What are you curious about? If one is an athlete meeting their macro daily of .8-1g per lb of LBM with varied sources of protein, you're ingesting more than enough protein for your body's needs as outlined above.

    From the conclusion:
    "Due to such characteristics, the utilization of MAP could be highly beneficial in the dietary treatment of patients
    with:
    a) Protein-Energy Malnutrition (PEM);
    b) Anorexia;
    c) Bulimia;
    d) Renal insufficiency;
    e) Hepatic insufficiency;
    f) Anemia due to an insufficient erythropoiesis;
    g) Lack of appetite;
    h) Vomit;
    i) Uncontrollable diarrhea;"

    I mean, if you're fitting into one of the categories above, then sure, it could be something to try.
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