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  1. #1
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    3-day water fast: Muscle loss?

    i'm starting a 3-day water fast to clean out my body of toxins and attempting to flush out my colon of debris. i will drink water only, tons of it...

    I might do some cardio also, to increase the load on the body and blood flow during the purification process. how much muscle will i lose? thanks.

  2. #2
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    3 days it's a lot for fasting.. I would skip any kind of exercises..
    "Theres nothing a treadmill cant burn off.."

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    You won't lose much muscle, but it is pretty pointless. Your colon is constantly "flushing" itself out. No need for it to ever be completely empty (unless you are prepping for scope or surgery, etc)

    "purification" or "detoxification" as is being sold by the crackpots on the internet/books is a load of hogwash. Just sayin'.
    No sir, I don't like it.

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    Are you saying you are going to only drink water for 3 days!?

    Why!?

    I guarantee mid day 2 you'll go "SOD THIS I AM OFF TO MCDs"
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  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
    You won't lose much muscle, but it is pretty pointless. Your colon is constantly "flushing" itself out. No need for it to ever be completely empty (unless you are prepping for scope or surgery, etc)

    "purification" or "detoxification" as is being sold by the crackpots on the internet/books is a load of hogwash. Just sayin'.
    Actually, there are studies that show after a 36 hour fast, you run solely on glycogen caused by glucogensis.
    "The world will look up and shout save us... And I'll whisper, no."

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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by -Aaron- View Post
    Actually, there are studies that show after a 36 hour fast, you run solely on glycogen caused by glucogensis.
    And this is detoxification how?
    No sir, I don't like it.

  7. #7
    Registered User gorex's Avatar
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    Mr. Horse you need to get your facts straight about fasting... google is your friend.

    @Thread starter: you've made an excellent decision both health wise and bb wise to begin a fast. I've read and experienced a lot with fasting. Here is my suggestion to you:

    1- Day before you begin: eat only fruits and vegetables with nuts and lentils. No diary, no meat, no starch etc.
    2- 1st day drink fruit juice in the morning, then light cardio/stretching, then vegetable juice and finally fruit juice at night.
    3- 2nd day water only. No cardio, be as sedantary as possible (mild stretching, walking ok)
    4- 3d day water only, before bedtime fruit juice. No cardio, be as sedantary as possible (mild stretching, walking ok)
    5- 4th day eat only fruits and vegetables with nuts and lentils. No diary, no meat, no starch etc. Cardio ok.
    6- 5th day You're ready to live and lift again (expect to be VERY hungry...watch your meals closely to not overeat)

    by the way studies have showed that you will not only provide countless health benefits to your body but you will also lift heavier after a fast. it was posted in this very forum last week. so be ready to step up once you're done with the fast
    Last edited by gorex; 03-22-2008 at 03:03 PM.
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    Originally Posted by gorex View Post
    Mr. Horse you need to get your facts straight about fasting... google is your friend.
    So you're saying googling a bunch of pseudoscience (and worse) websites about "detoxification" is more valuable than everything the field of medicine knows about the subject of human physiology?
    No sir, I don't like it.

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    Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
    And this is detoxification how?
    Forgive me, I thought this was a thread about fasting and muscle loss. I'm saying that fasting for 36+ hours will result in pure muscle catabolism.
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  10. #10
    Registered User gorex's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
    So you're saying googling a bunch of pseudoscience (and worse) websites about "detoxification" is more valuable than everything the field of medicine knows about the subject of human physiology?
    how about you search pubmed.com?

    personally, the only valuable thing for me is the experiences I've done and the results they have brought. I've read books, PhD thesis', and various studies in the past 3 years and they all conclude: fasting is most powerful natural way of auto cleansing and healing. In my case since I fast (2-3 days every 6 weeks) I have no more acne and allergies (that were once two major pains in my life)... coincidence? lol

    Reality check: outside is 2008. Want it or not, you are surrounded by chemically modified, denaturated and artificial substances. You eat them (pesticides, insecticides, artificial sweeteners etc.), You breath them (smog, car exhausts, old ventilation systems etc.) You drink them ...

    Good thing for you, every night: you fast. You allow you're body to clean itself. Problem: you're current daily fasting (you're night of sleep) is no longer enough to get all that out of your system. So you start to get acne, then headaches, then allergies, then various troubles, aches and pains...until you are diagnosed with cancer at 30. Look outside, this is the real picture. Once diagnosed by our health care, you're put on medication... but you wont heal. As every pharmaceutical company's purpose is to make out of you a lifetime costumer therefor not to heal you, but to maintain you alive.

    This the grim path of any guy like yourself that thinks todays medicine is a savior and all other (non-chemical) ways of maintaining good health is pseudoscience

    think about it, read up, then we'll talk
    Last edited by gorex; 03-22-2008 at 03:35 PM.
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    Originally Posted by gorex View Post
    think about it, read up, then we'll talk
    You have no idea how the human body operates. You learn about that, then come back and post your thoughts.
    No sir, I don't like it.

  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Marion_Cobretti View Post
    i'm starting a 3-day water fast to clean out my body of toxins and attempting to flush out my colon of debris. i will drink water only, tons of it...

    I might do some cardio also, to increase the load on the body and blood flow during the purification process. how much muscle will i lose? thanks.
    A 36 hour fast will have no discernable effect on muscle loss.

    As long as you don't fast too long and too often, you'll be fine.

  13. #13
    Registered User gorex's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
    You have no idea how the human body operates. You learn about that, then come back and post your thoughts.
    very elaborate reply. It shows you have a woderful background and much knowledge behind that bravery
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    Originally Posted by gorex View Post
    hope I didn't hurt your feelings
    How would posting nonsense that clearly delineates your ingorance on the subject hurt MY feelings?

    I'm happy to have a discourse about the subject, but the fact is that you are talking about a subject (human physiology) of which you know little about. Oh wait, all bodybuilders are automatically medical experts because they've heard of the vastus lateral, right? Sorry.
    No sir, I don't like it.

  15. #15
    Registered User gorex's Avatar
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    discourse? please do show where to look.

    Your input in this thread is not exceeding 2 sentences per reply.
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    Originally Posted by gorex View Post
    discourse? please do show where to look.

    Your input in this thread is not exceeding 2 sentences per reply.
    Like I said, I'd be happy to HAVE a discourse on the subject if we could speak the same language. It's futile for me to respond to strange statements that don't make any sense in the context of human physiology. I know this sounds condescending, but facts is facts. And you don't know the facts. Try reading less from health gurus, and more from scientifically sound sources of information. Oh wait, you're not one of those "the establishment is trying to kill us" people, are you?
    No sir, I don't like it.

  17. #17
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    Post Just try some Aloe Vera Juice!

    Originally Posted by Marion_Cobretti View Post
    i'm starting a 3-day water fast to clean out my body of toxins and attempting to flush out my colon of debris. i will drink water only, tons of it...

    I might do some cardio also, to increase the load on the body and blood flow during the purification process. how much muscle will i lose? thanks.
    If you are thinking about detoxification and colon cleansing, a good suggestion, besides water fasting, would be to drink a recommended dosage of Aloe Vera juice. It's many times over more effective than water fasting IMHO.

    Try it! You really have nothing to lose... besides toxins.
    Good luck, having fun eating!
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    Originally Posted by -Aaron- View Post
    Forgive me, I thought this was a thread about fasting and muscle loss. I'm saying that fasting for 36+ hours will result in pure muscle catabolism.
    What is muscle ctabolism?

  19. #19
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    Post I hope I'm right!

    Originally Posted by Kramerica View Post
    What is muscle ctabolism?
    Muscle tissue degeneration, or just a loss of lean body mass. I think... =/

    Muscle catabolism occurs when there are more negative than positive agents working in the body. Muscles are always either growing or shrinking - there is no holding pattern. Stress and poor diet/training/sleep patterns can lead to muscle catabolism, and it results in the bodybuilder-feeling run-down, losing muscle, and gaining fat. How can one escape this catabolic state? Here are a few tips in each of the four major areas (nutrition, supplementation, sleep, and training) for leaving the catabolic state, and entering the anabolic state.

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    Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
    Like I said, I'd be happy to HAVE a discourse on the subject if we could speak the same language. It's futile for me to respond to strange statements that don't make any sense in the context of human physiology. I know this sounds condescending, but facts is facts. And you don't know the facts. Try reading less from health gurus, and more from scientifically sound sources of information. Oh wait, you're not one of those "the establishment is trying to kill us" people, are you?
    your statements are meaningless. It's elementary to compliment yourself and suggest things about knowledge and background of others. and you still havent posted a single fact to back your claims... you lose horse
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    Detoxing is a scam.

    My thoughts:
    https://igoodies.000webhostapp.com/?viagra=showthread.php?t=2551331


    Im still waiting for the people that support fasting to come out with some actual science. Until then its always just going to be a placebo effect.

  22. #22
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    ^ detoxing, colon cleansing, etc. has nothing to with fasting
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    Originally Posted by gorex View Post
    you lose horse
    Wrong. I win because I'm right. It's not my job to teach you. Teach yourself and the lesson will be all the more valuable.

    Here's some places to start for an introduction:

    GI Phys: http://physioweb.med.uvm.edu/gi_phys...s_03spring.pdf

    Renal Phys: http://www.acbrown.com/renal/


    The above might be a little tough to read without a basic understanding of biochemstry. Oops, you need education to understand things. Wow!
    No sir, I don't like it.

  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by gorex View Post
    Reality check: outside is 2008. Want it or not, you are surrounded by chemically modified, denaturated and artificial substances. You eat them (pesticides, insecticides, artificial sweeteners etc.), You breath them (smog, car exhausts, old ventilation systems etc.) You drink them ...

    Good thing for you, every night: you fast. You allow you're body to clean itself. Problem: you're current daily fasting (you're night of sleep) is no longer enough to get all that out of your system. So you start to get acne, then headaches, then allergies, then various troubles, aches and pains...until you are diagnosed with cancer at 30. Look outside, this is the real picture. Once diagnosed by our health care, you're put on medication... but you wont heal. As every pharmaceutical company's purpose is to make out of you a lifetime costumer therefor not to heal you, but to maintain you alive.
    +

    Originally Posted by gorex View Post
    ^ detoxing, colon cleansing, etc. has nothing to with fasting
    Dont add up. Your whole stance on the reason its good to fast is because detoxing.

    So I'll just use your own logic...
    Originally Posted by gorex View Post
    you still havent posted a single fact to back your claims... you lose horse
    You still have yet to show any valid data for why fasting is a good idea. Until then I'll just assume youre done.

  25. #25
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    just wanted to clarify something. by water fast, do you mean only taking in water, or not taking in any water at all? those will have two very different effects.

    regardless, not giving your body anything it needs for 3 days isnt good. it needs water to function and it also needs protein. so, if you go without protein for 3 days, your body will break down skeletal muscle to supply the amino acids it needs. if you dont drink any fluids for 3 days, thats within the lower limit for actually dying.

    gorex, you should listen to horse, and also science because horse is backed by science as well as logic.

  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by gorex View Post
    how about you search pubmed.com?

    personally, the only valuable thing for me is the experiences I've done and the results they have brought. I've read books, PhD thesis', and various studies in the past 3 years and they all conclude: fasting is most powerful natural way of auto cleansing and healing. In my case since I fast (2-3 days every 6 weeks) I have no more acne and allergies (that were once two major pains in my life)... coincidence? lol

    Reality check: outside is 2008. Want it or not, you are surrounded by chemically modified, denaturated and artificial substances. You eat them (pesticides, insecticides, artificial sweeteners etc.), You breath them (smog, car exhausts, old ventilation systems etc.) You drink them ...

    Good thing for you, every night: you fast. You allow you're body to clean itself. Problem: you're current daily fasting (you're night of sleep) is no longer enough to get all that out of your system. So you start to get acne, then headaches, then allergies, then various troubles, aches and pains...until you are diagnosed with cancer at 30. Look outside, this is the real picture. Once diagnosed by our health care, you're put on medication... but you wont heal. As every pharmaceutical company's purpose is to make out of you a lifetime costumer therefor not to heal you, but to maintain you alive.

    This the grim path of any guy like yourself that thinks todays medicine is a savior and all other (non-chemical) ways of maintaining good health is pseudoscience

    think about it, read up, then we'll talk
    Yet another renegade conspiracy theorist advocating a return to "nature" with all sorts of sketchy naturopathic practices. As if chemicals and artificial substances are Satan manifested in his purest form. There's always a failure to realize the everything in the universe is composed of these natural little things called periodic elements or...chemicals! "Natural" substances are only distinguished from artificial ones by the way they are synthesized. Artificial substances (often collectively referred to as "chemicals") are chemical elements arranged by a man-made process. The goal is to use the substances to better the health and living of mankind. But all things that man does can have bad effects and so do "chemicals". When improperly balanced it's very possible to experience adverse effects, but the extent to which they harm us is greatly exaggerated by environmentalists and "health nuts".

    So then we have this damn panic related to "man-made" substances and how we all need to eat just fruits and vegetables, not use cellphones, and drive a hydrogen powered go-kart to work. Because God forbid the evil, air polluting, meat eating, technology using majority not be responsible for the obesity epidemic and lazyness that plagues the western world. (Ignore the fact that we live over 70, have clean water, and doctors to help us when something goes wrong.) If only we turned back to "nature" despite the fact that humankind really isn't that "natural" itself. Maybe by Linnean classification we are homo sapien sapiens, but we drive cars, live in gigantic boxes, and otherwise live off of the environment rather than in it. We are not "natural" animals and I can't stand this "live among the wolves" mentality that nature is our friend (it really isn't) and we should wear fig leaves and live in some tree in a random mountain to experience the best health imaginable.

    Furthermore western medicine gets a bad reputation despite the fact that it is well founded in scientific reason and it works. The most common accusations are that the Man just wants your money and chemicals are evil....mmmkay. Naturopathy/eastern medicine is distinguished from real medicine for a reason. It's not supported by great amounts of research, and if it were, it would be gladly included among treatment options. So all that's left is a bunch of homeopathic, traditional approaches to health care that do have their place in supplementing healthy living but cannot take the place of standardized medical options.

    And then we have to hear the speal about how drugs don't really cure you, they just treat you. Bullsh*t. I'll tell you a little story. In July/August of '07 I was diagnosed with a malignant tumor in my right testicle. I had an orchiectomy two days later, and then the doctor wanted to talk about further surgical procedures (RPLND) and chemotherapy. The cancer that I have has a very high cure right at about 95%. My tumor markers were not off the charts (HCG/AFP/LDH < 10) at the time so we opted for naturopathy/surveillence (blood work). My father (good guy) went through the trouble of finding this older lady who lives off of this sort of thing. She gave us a book and lectured us on how conventional medicine can't cure cancer, chemotherapy will destroy you, and doctors just want money. This only partially convinced me because me situation was good enough at the time, so I started the diet she suggested. I had to cut all dairy, b6, and citric acid from my diet which pretty much eliminated everything I loved to eat. When the first blood test came back and my markers went up, I had to be doing something wrong because she claims the diet never fails. So in the one the most disappointing moments of my recent past, I stopped weight lifting. (Up until that point I had gained 50lbs. in a year and was ready to bust through all my records.) Over the course of 6 months my markers fluctuated but the net result was rising. I was very unhappy and lost 15lbs. Then one test, my markers skyrocketed. I had a CT scan the next day and neoplasmic metastasis was found throughout my lungs and bronchial tubes. I was at stage 3b testicular cancer. I said to hell with the diet and started chemotherapy. I'm currently half way through my BEP cycle and I'm eating like I did before and I started lifting weights two weeks ago. I have had zero side effects, aside from acne rash on my chest and back (corticosteroids) and slight tinnitus from cisplatin. I'm doing a modified version of madcow's 5x5 and feel better than I have before.

    The point? Don't buy the mystical bullcrap that naturopathy is somehow more "in tune" with the body than western medicine. So while I do think that we put alot of sh*t in our foods, and could do without them, I also think that the body is a smart device that can adapt to its surroundings. Wrap your kid up in Saran wrap his whole life and he'll drop dead the moment you take it off. Exposure to some slightly more harmful substances is great way for the body to be able to protect itself. Plenty of people live full, healthy lives without organic foods and $10,000 worth of air and water filters. Make an effort to eat well, exercise, and live clean in general and you won't have to put up with all the sensationalistic hogwash from guys like Kevin Trudeau.

    (I didn't even address the fasting/detox issue, but I've heard enough and had first hand experience with this sort of ideology and it pisses me off because it can very easily cause more harm than good.)


    Edit: By the way, I used to have very bad acne on my face. Want to know how I got rid of it? Benzoyl peroxide. A chemical. I used it twice a day over the course of 4-6 months and now I don't have it at all. My face is really smooth now and the only remains are some hyperpigmentation (which will disappear on its own) and slight comodonal acne (small-scale subsurface stuff that you can't see unless you're really close).
    Last edited by PansyLad; 03-22-2008 at 06:43 PM.

  27. #27
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    I'm glad to hear that you're doing better thanks to chimio. From the way you write and express your thoughts it's obvious you're gonna win this fight! Hats off!

    Fasting should not be used to heal conditions such as yours, it's a not a miracle cure but is one of many factors that contribute to good health. This is a fact, it's not some charlatanism intended to sell you a cult or a way of life. It was practiced for centuries.

    It's not very popular in America (the land of abundance) where only the thought of depriving yourself from just about anything cannot logically stand. But in europe (more specifically germany, swiss) it's a very common practice. In the past decades there were many researches published about the benefits. I will try and dig... here is one handy:

    A biologist by the name of Nicole Boudreau, has spent years of her life scientifically analyzing thousands of supervised fasts and published conclusions in 2002 such as:
    - During a fast your level of zinc is particularly high and damaged tissues in your body heal
    - your body will "autolyze", or self-digest, its most inferior and impure materials and metabolic wastes
    - New cell growth during fasting is stimulated
    - Your immune system benefits a boost

    I am not suggesting anyone should adopt this practice. I have personally experienced good results but what applies to me might not apply to all
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  28. #28
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    Originally Posted by pologod05 View Post

    gorex, you should listen to horse, and also science because horse is backed by science as well as logic.
    I studied biology in college. And further researched Fasting on my own. Among other things I read several PhD thesis papers about fasting. All of them had positive conclusions.
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  29. #29
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    I would recommend against fasting. I did a juice fast a couple years ago for an entire week....Yes a week. I played basketball everyday for an hour and when all was said and done, I lost 25lbs. About a month later I gained all the 25lbs back and gained an extra 10..... Of course, this was before I realized i was a lifestyle change that was needed, but looking back on it, it was a bad experience. I remember every day of it vivivdly...

  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by gorex View Post
    Among other things I read several PhD thesis papers about fasting. All of them had positive conclusions.

    Here's an opinion from a gastroenterologist from mayo.

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/detox-diets/AN01334
    No sir, I don't like it.

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