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Thread: Sugar "bulking"

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    Sugar "bulking"

    Just sharing an idea I am going to try. I am long past the day where I can measure 'progress'. I have to look at my training from a yearly standpoint and even then, things are hard to see.

    Looking back at this past year, I essentially did nothing. My accomplishment was staying in the gym and coming back from a spinal fracture and 3 disk injuries. Needless to say, my training had to change. (I had no choice). It was far from enjoyable, but I did not miss a workout (except a few planned misses)


    I have also been utilizing Intermittent Fasting for just over a year, and from an 'effort/reward' standpoint, it is an easy and enjoyable lifestyle option.


    For 2020, I would like to make some progress. Moreso, I would like to enjoy training again. Given that my reward has always been enjoying moving heavy weight, I have to find other avenues to enjoy myself.


    "Sugar Bulking" is what I am going to call it! I have learned that conventional 'bulks' dont yeild any results for me anymore. I specifically am referring to what most would call a 'clean bulk'. Basically a small sustained caloric surplus every day for months. I have also seen that IF is changing my body in other ways. My bloodwork from a physical recently showed my fasted blood sugar the most "normal" it has ever been. I have consistently test for the past 10+ years at the bottom or even below the scale. This is a bid deal as it is a real clue that to me IF is more than just cals in out.

    So my strategy is going to be have some very high carb boluses post training. Easy way to do this will be simple sugars like dextrose. I always as a habit consume a shake I make prior to the gym just because it has been part of my protein intake strategy for 10 years. What I am going to do differently is up the carbs from about 40, to 100 (or more.) (so about an extra 160-240 cals all from simple sugars immediately post workout).

    My workouts are going to change as well. I am going to bring in some DC style training. I have never really trained fatigue type "bodybuilding" style training.


    So before people poo poo nutrient timing, anabolic window stuff as 'bro science'. I will be the first to say IF there is any effect on these things, they are small. But they do exist. My time frames are not 12 weeks or 6 months....they are lifestyle, day in and day out changes which cumulative effects can and do add up over time. I have in the past prior to IF done intra/post workout simple carb experiments and have seen how I responded. (there most definitely was a noticeable effect). I just never used it consistently as carb/caloric surpluses.

    So that is the plan. A little outside the box....but when you reach the end of any real progress, you have to try different things...
    RAW lifts
    635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
    585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
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    Not sure if this is "nutrient timing", but if I've some target in mind that I'm worrying I might miss, I'll eat a large candy bar just before I walk into the gym. Science or no science, it seems to help me!
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Just sharing an idea I am going to try. I am long past the day where I can measure 'progress'. I have to look at my training from a yearly standpoint and even then, things are hard to see.

    Looking back at this past year, I essentially did nothing. My accomplishment was staying in the gym and coming back from a spinal fracture and 3 disk injuries. Needless to say, my training had to change. (I had no choice). It was far from enjoyable, but I did not miss a workout (except a few planned misses)


    I have also been utilizing Intermittent Fasting for just over a year, and from an 'effort/reward' standpoint, it is an easy and enjoyable lifestyle option.


    For 2020, I would like to make some progress. Moreso, I would like to enjoy training again. Given that my reward has always been enjoying moving heavy weight, I have to find other avenues to enjoy myself.


    "Sugar Bulking" is what I am going to call it! I have learned that conventional 'bulks' dont yeild any results for me anymore. I specifically am referring to what most would call a 'clean bulk'. Basically a small sustained caloric surplus every day for months. I have also seen that IF is changing my body in other ways. My bloodwork from a physical recently showed my fasted blood sugar the most "normal" it has ever been. I have consistently test for the past 10+ years at the bottom or even below the scale. This is a bid deal as it is a real clue that to me IF is more than just cals in out.

    So my strategy is going to be have some very high carb boluses post training. Easy way to do this will be simple sugars like dextrose. I always as a habit consume a shake I make prior to the gym just because it has been part of my protein intake strategy for 10 years. What I am going to do differently is up the carbs from about 40, to 100 (or more.) (so about an extra 160-240 cals all from simple sugars immediately post workout).

    My workouts are going to change as well. I am going to bring in some DC style training. I have never really trained fatigue type "bodybuilding" style training.


    So before people poo poo nutrient timing, anabolic window stuff as 'bro science'. I will be the first to say IF there is any effect on these things, they are small. But they do exist. My time frames are not 12 weeks or 6 months....they are lifestyle, day in and day out changes which cumulative effects can and do add up over time. I have in the past prior to IF done intra/post workout simple carb experiments and have seen how I responded. (there most definitely was a noticeable effect). I just never used it consistently as carb/caloric surpluses.

    So that is the plan. A little outside the box....but when you reach the end of any real progress, you have to try different things...
    So what's your goal in 3 sentences? Not trying to be a jerk, but I don't fully understand what you are trying to accomplish.
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    Originally Posted by kyle38 View Post
    So what's your goal in 3 sentences? Not trying to be a jerk, but I don't fully understand what you are trying to accomplish.

    Here it is in two!:
    -enjoy my training. Not something I was able to do in the last year so a change is necessary
    -Make any type of progress (density/fullness/size...etc) Also not something I was able to do at all last year.


    I have the 'in shape' thing pretty well down. This is my current shape I stay at year round. +/- 5lbs. I have just been 'treading water' essentially. Looking for even any change. But time to do something other than just maintain and see if it has any effect..... I know traditional 'bulks' no longer really yield results other than gaining and then losing said weight. So I am trying mini sugar bulks



    RAW lifts
    635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
    585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
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    I’m interested to hear how it works out for you. Should be a good chance for us to observe this effect with variables relatively isolated. Good luck!
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Here it is in two!:
    -enjoy my training. Not something I was able to do in the last year so a change is necessary
    -Make any type of progress (density/fullness/size...etc) Also not something I was able to do at all last year.


    I have the 'in shape' thing pretty well down. This is my current shape I stay at year round. +/- 5lbs. I have just been 'treading water' essentially. Looking for even any change. But time to do something other than just maintain and see if it has any effect..... I know traditional 'bulks' no longer really yield results other than gaining and then losing said weight. So I am trying mini sugar bulks
    You look like you are in peak shape. Have you thought about any kind of skill training to keep it interesting?
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    Interesting - John Meadows is a proponent of using cyclic dextrin as an intra and post workout combined with EAA's. He says he feels it aids recovery between workouts and reduces soreness (when you are really working hard). Worth checking him out if you don't already - he has some other interesting stuff about cycling carbs periodically to maintain insulin sensitivity (I'd guess your IF is having some effect on you here). While I find his stuff interesting I am very much a noob at this and there is a lot of low hanging fruit for me before I worry about this stuff - but given your training age etc there's probably mileage in what you are going to try.
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    Originally Posted by kyle38 View Post
    You look like you are in peak shape. Have you thought about any kind of skill training to keep it interesting?

    Outside the 'gym' I enjoy many parts of my life and the gym is simply a small part of my daily routine. It no longer holds the focus for me that it once did. But if you are speaking of skill training as it might pertain to lifting, I would love to do oly lifting or even strong man comps, but unfortunately, my combination of injuries will prevent me from doing so. I am super competitive with myself and I have a very hard time not pushing myself.

    Funny, despite the way I look, I would say I am the least dedicated and least focused I have ever been. I love (or used to love) training. I am just looking to find a way I can push myself a little and maybe eek out some progress. DC (doggcrapp) style training is tough, but I will drop to 3 days a week. The workouts will be much more intense....but less time in the gym...etc.



    Originally Posted by NearlyBigAngus View Post
    Interesting - John Meadows is a proponent of using cyclic dextrin as an intra and post workout combined with EAA's. He says he feels it aids recovery between workouts and reduces soreness (when you are really working hard). Worth checking him out if you don't already - he has some other interesting stuff about cycling carbs periodically to maintain insulin sensitivity (I'd guess your IF is having some effect on you here). While I find his stuff interesting I am very much a noob at this and there is a lot of low hanging fruit for me before I worry about this stuff - but given your training age etc there's probably mileage in what you are going to try.
    I will have to check that out. Thanks! Your approach is smart. A lot of guys initially get caught up in overcomplicating things. KISS is the best way. Work to get strong and EAT! But yes as time goes on, the margin between gains and no gains gets more and more narrow. It then blurs completely. Results now can barely be measure (except fat loss and gain).

    IF...IF...there are differences in these things, they are small at best...but when the alternative is making no progress anyway, it does not hurt to try time. I have seen this hold true with IF diet. I can notice difference over time (more than cals in cals out). I can also see them in my bloodwork...etc. Still they are subtle, but all I have is time now....

    At 47 I am not feeling at all bad about where I am at. I have never quite been to where I want to be. But the past few years I am happy with the life balance I have achieved. I have many years ahead and I am not interested in making unhealthy decisions to make any more progress. But if I can manipulate diet or make small changes like that, I am willing to try. I have come to learn that FOOD is the most powerful tool we have at our disposal.

    I dare say it has more effect than reps and sets. They both need each other but I would say a guy with an ideal intake (cals and macros) and a less than ideal workout, will make MORE progress than the opposite. That being a guy with an ideal workout and less than ideal intake.
    RAW lifts
    635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
    585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Outside the 'gym' I enjoy many parts of my life and the gym is simply a small part of my daily routine. It no longer holds the focus for me that it once did. But if you are speaking of skill training as it might pertain to lifting, I would love to do oly lifting or even strong man comps, but unfortunately, my combination of injuries will prevent me from doing so. I am super competitive with myself and I have a very hard time not pushing myself.

    Funny, despite the way I look, I would say I am the least dedicated and least focused I have ever been. I love (or used to love) training. I am just looking to find a way I can push myself a little and maybe eek out some progress. DC (doggcrapp) style training is tough, but I will drop to 3 days a week. The workouts will be much more intense....but less time in the gym...etc.





    I will have to check that out. Thanks! Your approach is smart. A lot of guys initially get caught up in overcomplicating things. KISS is the best way. Work to get strong and EAT! But yes as time goes on, the margin between gains and no gains gets more and more narrow. It then blurs completely. Results now can barely be measure (except fat loss and gain).

    IF...IF...there are differences in these things, they are small at best...but when the alternative is making no progress anyway, it does not hurt to try time. I have seen this hold true with IF diet. I can notice difference over time (more than cals in cals out). I can also see them in my bloodwork...etc. Still they are subtle, but all I have is time now....

    At 47 I am not feeling at all bad about where I am at. I have never quite been to where I want to be. But the past few years I am happy with the life balance I have achieved. I have many years ahead and I am not interested in making unhealthy decisions to make any more progress. But if I can manipulate diet or make small changes like that, I am willing to try. I have come to learn that FOOD is the most powerful tool we have at our disposal.

    I dare say it has more effect than reps and sets. They both need each other but I would say a guy with an ideal intake (cals and macros) and a less than ideal workout, will make MORE progress than the opposite. That being a guy with an ideal workout and less than ideal intake.
    Just curious, what adaptations have you made to training due to injuries? My back is pretty wrecked and I have figured out what I can and can not do, where I can go heavier and where I have to scale back, but at times it bothers me that I can't squat or deadlift anymore.

    Also, good luck on the DC training. I read an article on that and it sounded pretty intense. So intense in fact that they did not recommend it if you play recreational sports like hockey. They said it would drain you too much. I hope you write about your training experiences.
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    So before people poo poo nutrient timing, anabolic window stuff as 'bro science'. I will be the first to say IF there is any effect on these things, they are small. But they do exist.
    My understanding is that this window becomes more relevant with the increase in training age so it makes perfect sense for you to try and exploit it as much as possible. Good luck on the new goals ID.
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    Originally Posted by willybrokeback View Post
    Just curious, what adaptations have you made to training due to injuries? My back is pretty wrecked and I have figured out what I can and can not do, where I can go heavier and where I have to scale back, but at times it bothers me that I can't squat or deadlift anymore.

    Also, good luck on the DC training. I read an article on that and it sounded pretty intense.

    Physically my biggest limitation is my back and shoulder. Shoulder always been there. But with super strict form, I have been able to work up to benching 4+ but hurt it breaking form a few years back in a meet and backed WAY off since. Just not worth being that lumped up and nursing it for so long after.

    I very rarely bench anymore and if I do it is reverse grip. Lots of dumbbells and TUT Hammer strength machines. (there are a few that work with my geometry).


    As for back, I have to be more careful. My doc says I am OK and to let pain be my guide. I have gone as heavy as a 545 squat but then two weeks later my back went out using 225. It is way too unpredictable and I cant afford to not have 100% confidence if I am going heavy.

    I gave up deadlifting all together because I know I am still strong enough to go pull 600lbs even though I have not done a deadlift in years. BUT, I know that would not be very smart. I have come to respect that the weights I have the ability to move, can cause massive life changing injuries. My back prior to my car accident just over a year ago, was something I always considered 'bullet proof'. I had no issues doing SLDL with 495 for 8 reps...etc. I would go up to 405 on bent rows. Again, not having the confidence that my back can now handle it, is preventing me from pushing anything.

    My dr says there was a bunch of soft tissue damage and I may never get back to where I was and there are no clear cut answers. There is no underlying skeletal issues he sees any longer. So it will just be a see over time thing.

    So I have had to force myself to not lift anything heavy. Maybe in time, I will try again to move heavy weights. I just dont think now is the right time.

    This past year has been mostly light things with tons of TUT and MMC training. Just trying to 'get at' the muscles themselves. I am left very unfulfilled though, hence, I have to do something different.


    As for DC. I will be dropping to 3 days a week, which may relieve some of the monotony of going 4 days giving now 2 days mid week to relax. You are training "heavy" but not what I consider heavy. Easily one large multi set per bodypart but your first reps should hit 8-10. I had year prior worked most of my power moves in the 3-5 rep range....so a 10 rep squat was like cardio

    I am going to spend the rest of the year selecting the exercises I want to work into the rotation. I am thinking of utilizing a lot of HS stuff since I wont need a spotter and you really have to push as hard as you can. Using HS, I can fail without worry.



    Originally Posted by ectoBgone View Post
    My understanding is that this window becomes more relevant with the increase in training age so it makes perfect sense for you to try and exploit it as much as possible. Good luck on the new goals ID.
    I dont know it is age, but definitely at lower compositions, nutrient timing becomes apparent. At some point, just repeating the same thing over and over gets old. As much as I enjoy being fit again, I also want to enjoy my first love....which is training itself. Since that used to come in the form of pushing myself to move the most weight I could, now I have to find a different way to motivate myself.

    25 years ago, I did "Heavy Duty" which was brutal. But DC seems like a leap above that. Reading interviews with the guy who came up with the ideas, I can see the advantages. BUT...I have to be ready to push myself. No more diking off talking to a bunch of people. ( I have made a lot of good friends at the gym and it is always good to shoot the sh!t). But I have to buckle down and get serious. (or at least try)
    RAW lifts
    635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
    585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I dont know it is age...
    I didn't mean biological age, I meant training age. It seems that the further you are along to your genetic potential, the smaller the window for hypertrophic response after training and hence why nutrient timing may be more significant for the advanced lifter. But either way, as you've alluded to, the harder nut to crack is the mental aspect to keep finding joy in what you're doing.
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    Some very interesting results to report thus far.

    In this short time, I have seen a scale shift of 8lbs. I am sure it is glycogen retention. I look way more filled out. Workouts now leave me feeling very tight whereas I never used to get pumps before. I look a lot bigger, but I am carrying a little more water on given days. I use lower ab veins as a barometer for bloat as they are the first to flatten out.

    Strength has spiked (or preception of strength)


    With regards to appetite, I can feel the my body's feedback kick in where I feel a little more full on the days I do this. It is only a extra 200ish cals PWO, but I am having a tad of trouble eating dinner which is generally when I get home from the gym. (40 min PWO +/-).


    What will be interesting to see is if I start to pick up fat overtime doing this. That is the $1,000,000 question. Or if my body is able to utilize the extra carbs without a lot of excess spillover into fat. Or it may be somewhere in between.


    This is kind of all uncharted for me, and the past year has seen me eating lower-ish carbs. (generally under 200/day).


    As I mentioned, even if this proves to be a total waste of time, it cant be worse than the progress (or lack thereof) of the past year. I also am not committing to a 4-5 month long eating up process and then 10-12 weeks of dieting before I can evaluate.
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    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Some very interesting results to report thus far.

    In this short time, I have seen a scale shift of 8lbs. I am sure it is glycogen retention. I look way more filled out. Workouts now leave me feeling very tight whereas I never used to get pumps before. I look a lot bigger, but I am carrying a little more water on given days. I use lower ab veins as a barometer for bloat as they are the first to flatten out.

    Strength has spiked (or preception of strength)


    With regards to appetite, I can feel the my body's feedback kick in where I feel a little more full on the days I do this. It is only a extra 200ish cals PWO, but I am having a tad of trouble eating dinner which is generally when I get home from the gym. (40 min PWO +/-).


    What will be interesting to see is if I start to pick up fat overtime doing this. That is the $1,000,000 question. Or if my body is able to utilize the extra carbs without a lot of excess spillover into fat. Or it may be somewhere in between.


    This is kind of all uncharted for me, and the past year has seen me eating lower-ish carbs. (generally under 200/day).


    As I mentioned, even if this proves to be a total waste of time, it cant be worse than the progress (or lack thereof) of the past year. I also am not committing to a 4-5 month long eating up process and then 10-12 weeks of dieting before I can evaluate.
    Are you doing the DC training as well or just the "sugar bulking" after workouts?
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    Originally Posted by willybrokeback View Post
    Are you doing the DC training as well or just the "sugar bulking" after workouts?
    Oh....sorry bout that. Should have mentioned that.


    I have NOT started DC. What I have been doing is selecting some of the exercises I will use in my rotation and doing a few sets to get the feel for my starting point.

    I also blew the dust off my workout logging app and input my custom plan. Last entry was 2016!


    I am going to let the holidays pass and get my head straight before I start the workout. I have to be mentally ready for it as you cant just blow off a set if you are not focused, since it is pretty much one set only per body part.



    Will update. There will be a lot of variables and nothing scientific about what I am doing, but I also will have a physical coming so I will see what my fasting glucose looks like. It feels a little weird dropping this much sugar all in one 'bomb'. But my body seems to be responding well thus far.
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    Interesting - I wonder if you will need to cycle lower periods of carbs in and out of your diet to keep the sensitivity or whether the IF will do the job?

    I guess the pump/lack of will guide you.
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    Started my first DC session yesterday!

    Gym is very packed, but I set it up so I can be flexible with my exercise choices. I am utilizing a lot of HammerStrength stuff which helps GREATLY with the extended sets.

    Felt really great to push myself that hard, but I did not feel it was 'heavy' since the weights are something having you fail at 8-10ish on the first part of the giant set. Sure felt heavy by the 2nd rest where I was getting 3 etc.


    Finished my workout in 50 min. Going to feel VERY strange to not workout today. Dropping down to 3 days/week is just going to take some faith.

    Wed is my first "B" workout. Legs will be tough!
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    I'm convinced the low volume high intensity style DC training is the way to go for most people once they learn how to train hard and main proper form deep in a set

    I've also changed my views on cals in cals out and nutrient timing. Hired my buddy to take over nutrition for me and he's pushed my cals to 1200 more than what I was bulking at. I had already gained about 20 lbs before I hired him and my body weight actually dropped.

    I'm at 4800 cals now on training days and body weight is starting to creep up again . Biggest thing he's changed has been having no fats in my big carb meals (M1 and m3)

    Current macros
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    Very interesting experiment going on in here. Looking forward to following along and learning something new.
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    Tried DC for a few weeks 6 months ago or so. I had a hard time feeling that I was really getting anything out of it since it was such low volume.

    Switched up TO GVT after that and have run it since Sept or so. Put on some good size and gotten good strength gain, especially when I started my Bulk in October. Went from 220ish to 243 on Jan1st. Yes I added fat, not gonna lie about that. Now going to do a 6 week mini cut to see really what pure mass I put on.
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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Capt_Lou View Post
    Tried DC for a few weeks 6 months ago or so. I had a hard time feeling that I was really getting anything out of it since it was such low volume.

    .
    The volume is low-er than I have been doing, but definitely not the lowest program I have ever done. I did a 3-day upper lower split for the first few years coming back to the gym that we even lower volume, but I made some of the best progress of my life on it.

    I think there is some misunderstanding on DC. Having read interviews with the creator, he fully intends on doing warm-ups leading to the single giant set. This has actually got me in the habit of doing better warming up for each exercise. When I dont feel I will be up to putting out full output, sometimes I repeat my sub-maximal warm-ups and it definitely helps prime my CNS for to be ready to push as hard as I can for the single set. I have noticed the 'switch' has come back and my strength is much more on tap with just 6 workouts under my belt at this point.

    A great example, is I took over a year off benching and when I returned, 135 felt heavy. So then I put on 225 and it felt even heavier the first few reps. Almost like I could not press like I used to. It was not until I put on 315 that I realized it was all in my head. 315 of course felt 'heavy' too, but it felt just about as heavy as 225. The CNS activation can not be ruled out.

    This program does a great job for me priming my brain to lift to maximal effort. (something I have not done in over a year) Also what I love is that I can do it, To me a weight that I can lift 10 reps is not "heavy" even if it is 400lbs. "Heavy" to me is the 3-4 rep range. Anything I can do for 10-12 does not feal heavy regardless of the weight. Since the giant sets generally have you failing at 10-12 reps, I can push hard, but not have to move very heavy weight.

    I am still working around my spinal issues from last year, so finding this program helps a ton.



    I also have my sugar bolus down now. It consists of aprox:

    90g simple sugars in my post workout shake banana, strawberry, apple juice, dextrose
    Then 20 min later I eat dinner which might be 50g carbs
    Then immedietly after dinner, I eat 1.25 servings Sherbert (almost no fat) and another 45g carbs
    Then immedietly a serving of rasin bran. Another 50 grams of carbs.

    So I am shoving in aprox 230-240 grams of carbs (1000cals) all post workout



    Weight is up aprox 12 lbs. 213 A little water but still have lower ab veins. I am way filled out. Tried to put a compression shirt on that I wear to gym at times, and it was way too tight. Wife commented a few times for me to 'put your arms down and quite walking funny'....so I know I have filled out


    Just going to keep going with this and see what happens. Working out only 3 days a week actually makes me want to train more now...which feels great again!
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    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
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    Registered User ajdahlheimer's Avatar
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    Hey ID--any thoughts on this type of training? Doing "one set" of anything just really goes against anything I've ever done in my 25 years of consistent lifting.....

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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    Hey ID--any thoughts on this type of training? Doing "one set" of anything just really goes against anything I've ever done in my 25 years of consistent lifting.....

    https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ags...yates-hit.html

    It "borrows" from several programs. Mainly Metzner's Heavy Duty and DC I can see a lot of.

    For me, I am really enjoying DC since you are essintally doing an A/B M/W/F So each body part gets hit 1.5 times a week.


    But BOTH require you to be able to exert "Maximal" effort which many guys cant do . Not from a "hardcorez" side, but rather true CNS recruitment.


    Here is a good link that describes basicly the way I set mine up.

    http://www.simplyshredded.com/a-load...ybuilding.html



    Here is a pic of legs from tonight. Totally 'cold' and tonight is not a workout night. I can see much greater fullness aready in my hamstrings. Obviously shifting the scale 12 lbs over the past month or so has not really hurt definition. My wife has made comments about my chest and back filling back out as well.


    I am excited to keep going on this.....



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    585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
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    Registered User ajdahlheimer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    It "borrows" from several programs. Mainly Metzner's Heavy Duty and DC I can see a lot of.

    For me, I am really enjoying DC since you are essintally doing an A/B M/W/F So each body part gets hit 1.5 times a week.


    But BOTH require you to be able to exert "Maximal" effort which many guys cant do . Not from a "hardcorez" side, but rather true CNS recruitment.


    Here is a good link that describes basicly the way I set mine up.

    http://www.simplyshredded.com/a-load...ybuilding.html
    Thanks for the link. Good stuff. I am considering changing up to something like that after I finish my current workout cycle in 3 weeks.

    One thing I am curious about is penchant for injury w/a workout program/split like that. Doing more volume and having more days where I just lift period--I tend to get more injuries/aches/pains that I think are caused by repetitive movements and over-training. The workout I linked and your DC program seems like it would really help with that kind of thing, BUT would it put a person at higher risk for MAJOR injury like tears and whatnot (since it requires very heavy weight amounts and exertion)?

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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    BUT would it put a person at higher risk for MAJOR injury like tears and whatnot (since it requires very heavy weight amounts and exertion)?

    -AJ
    I dont think so. Especially with DC. With DC many of your target reps for your 'giant sets' are 12-15. EG, HS chest press, you fail at 9, then get 4, then get 2. Anything I can do for 9-10 to me is not 'heavy'.


    On more delicate movements, like direct tricep work, your target reps are 15-20. So you might fail at 11, 6, 4

    The great flexibility in this is if you have a bodypart prone to injury, just shift your target reps slightly so your first set "fails" in the 12 range. This make the "load" less, but equalizes in volume. Skull crusher are a great example, or preacher curls. I would never want to do sets were I failed at 8 on my first part. Too much load for me to feel comfortable. Going to 12 however, feels different and not so 'stressful'.


    Last part, is on BIG exercises like deads, squats, or back thickness, there is no "giant set". Too risky for injury. So you do a 6-9 rep set.....full rest....do a 10-12, full rest....and then fully rested, do a 20 rep 'widow maker'


    On top of all of this, (much like the link I posted), I am rotating 3 exercises for each day. So I go a few weeks in-between repeating any particular exercise. Or I can choose to repeat one which 'bothers' me less I feel my body needs a break.


    I am VERY much enjoying it. I also am liking the addition rest. Been doing 4d/week for years now. As much as I like working out, I needed a shift. More time for things outside the gym, actually make me want to train hard again when I go in. All in all, this is a win/win for me.


    I'll continue to update my thoughts on it as it goes along. I am interested to get to my repeat exercises so I can compete with my previous workout!
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I dont think so. Especially with DC. With DC many of your target reps for your 'giant sets' are 12-15. EG, HS chest press, you fail at 9, then get 4, then get 2. Anything I can do for 9-10 to me is not 'heavy'.


    On more delicate movements, like direct tricep work, your target reps are 15-20. So you might fail at 11, 6, 4

    The great flexibility in this is if you have a bodypart prone to injury, just shift your target reps slightly so your first set "fails" in the 12 range. This make the "load" less, but equalizes in volume. Skull crusher are a great example, or preacher curls. I would never want to do sets were I failed at 8 on my first part. Too much load for me to feel comfortable. Going to 12 however, feels different and not so 'stressful'.


    Last part, is on BIG exercises like deads, squats, or back thickness, there is no "giant set". Too risky for injury. So you do a 6-9 rep set.....full rest....do a 10-12, full rest....and then fully rested, do a 20 rep 'widow maker'


    On top of all of this, (much like the link I posted), I am rotating 3 exercises for each day. So I go a few weeks in-between repeating any particular exercise. Or I can choose to repeat one which 'bothers' me less I feel my body needs a break.


    I am VERY much enjoying it. I also am liking the addition rest. Been doing 4d/week for years now. As much as I like working out, I needed a shift. More time for things outside the gym, actually make me want to train hard again when I go in. All in all, this is a win/win for me.


    I'll continue to update my thoughts on it as it goes along. I am interested to get to my repeat exercises so I can compete with my previous workout!
    Too bad you aren't keeping a journal in the public journal forum here on OV35. I'd like to see your exercise/sets/reps as you do this, but I get you don't want to keep a journal two different places.
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  27. #27
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    Too bad you aren't keeping a journal in the public journal forum here on OV35. I'd like to see your exercise/sets/reps as you do this, but I get you don't want to keep a journal two different places.
    I'll post up my routine when I get a chance. I tried keeping a journal here a long time ago but I found it just took way too much time.


    I use a phone tracking app called jefit. I think I started using it back in 2012 or 13. I had to blow the dust off it again.

    I had purchased the pro version a bunch of years ago but it looks like they have altered their pricing models trying to convince people to pay a monthly fee for it. I still have the ability to input unlimited custom exercises so I can create my program but I don't know if that is just a legacy carryover from my prior purchase of their pro version.


    I find it works very very well and easy to use. Also my program was created for me to be able to complete it at a busy gym so that was another reason that I have three exercises for each possibility. That way if something is busy and tied up I can just pick a different exercise to do that day. So it's serving two purposes of the rotation and alternatives.


    This weekend I'll see if I can post it up.
    RAW lifts
    635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
    585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
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  28. #28
    Registered User ajdahlheimer's Avatar
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    ajdahlheimer is offline
    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I'll post up my routine when I get a chance. I tried keeping a journal here a long time ago but I found it just took way too much time.

    This weekend I'll see if I can post it up.
    I've had my journal here for 6-7 years now I think. Just update it at the same time each morning and then have it up on my phone during my workout. Of course I am home gym only and all my kids are now teenagers--so no longer have to workout under tight time constraints these days.

    I'll have to follow how DC goes for you the next 3 weeks and then see if I want to try something similar when I start a new 12 week program. Appreciate it, ID. On spread.

    -AJ
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